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Sun4Ever2  
#641 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 4:06:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
To make everything clear:
You said that scripting was easy and on another level as programming : I answered that it is as easy as creating a program with a framework

You said that there was no good tutorial to learn scripting even after trying several times; I answered that : 1) a tutorial is not really necessary given to learn that I know several scripters that learned without it and 2) to get started, the tutorial was more than enough
You answered that you wanted to start a script from 0
Answer: i repeated that the tutorial is more than enough for that and that no tutorial would give more than the base

You said that the link update was taking too long AND was worried about the process of the AI update : I answered that you have a regular user and so, have no right to know the process (using a few companies as exemple), and given that you don't know the state of the update , and so have no right to criticize the time taken

You said that big companie were communicating about their update using windows insider as a exemple : I answered that windows insider is not for everyone and is closer to a beta test of the updates

You said that Sony have no Os : exemple given, PS4 is using a OS
Answer from you "I thinked that you talked about a OS from 0 and it is a modified version of freedbs"
Answer from me right now: what does that change that it is a modified version? A modified version mean no work on it ?
It is still their own OS, they don't communicate about what they are working on until the update is ready (or nearly ready) so my point is still there
Because if you think that a modified version is not "real", then there is no real version of ygopro given that they are all fork of Fluo core and each have their own modifications

"Big companies communicate about their futur features and rumors come from companies"
1) big companies don't communicate about update until said update reached a good amount of complexion, except if the project is a open source project (given that by definition it is "open")
2) Rumors are until official reveal just rumors and are never official until confirmed
Some may come from the company (to increase hype, something that we don't do) but most are most are from people trying to make themselves seem important because they says "hey I have info nobody else have", or from dev that have access to the codes and give info about what they find (note: what is in a code may or may never be used)
A easy exemple again is the switch, we got tons of rumors about everything (the controlers, the materials used,the lineup...) result? Most of the rumors ended wrong except a few that were General like "it will be a console that will be nomade and TV compatible" without giving more details
And each E3 we have "leak of the Nintendo presentation content" That end up completely wrong
Same with Apple, nobody can says "I know at 100% the strategy of apple for the next iPhone"
Another exemple, who could have predicted that Facebook would create their own video service?
And you can find more similar examples


Alright let me ask you a question did the users actually deserve too know any date or info about the AI currently process from percy or they not?

Edited by user Saturday, August 12, 2017 4:06:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

cybercatman  
#642 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 4:27:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sun4Ever2 Go to Quoted Post


Alright let me ask you a question did the users actually deserve too know any date or info about the AI currently process from percy or they not?


Will we give a ETA? You can check most page of that topic, the answer was repeated enough time I think (and is a good part of the reasons that all member of the team are annoyed)
Does a regular user deserve to know internal working/discussion of the team/info that only the team have access ?
Let me answer with a exemple: does a random guy in the streets deserve to know what is said in the chief of your country team?
It is the same idea

if we have info that :
-Is useful for regular users
-That we are allowed to give
-We know that will not create a hype wave
then we will give it
If there is nothing to says, we will not says it
AI need time to be done, there is nothing more that a regular user should know since there is nothing that we know that could be useful for him

For the rest, experience already proved that the community can read only the part that it want (like when MLD said "come back at the end of July", a few understood "link release at the end of July "), or don't even read at all given the number of time we already repeated some info (some questions having the answer 1 or 2 post above)

Sun4Ever2  
#643 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 5:56:58 PM(UTC)
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no I am not talking about ETA I mean the people forum had deserve to know if there are big problems actually with the AI or not or least if it is almost done or not sorry for that you get my question wrong mate
cybercatman  
#644 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:34:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sun4Ever2 Go to Quoted Post
no I am not talking about ETA I mean the people forum had deserve to know if there are big problems actually with the AI or not or least if it is almost done or not sorry for that you get my question wrong mate


The only thing I can says is that Percy was busy until recently, and only him can work on it
Sun4Ever2  
#645 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 9:48:10 PM(UTC)
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and only him can provide any info about it Ok I got it :)
codu  
#646 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:51:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
The only thing I can says is that Percy was busy until recently, and only him can work on it

Busy until recently??? So that means there wont be update until november or december??? Why doesnt he allow others from his team to work on AI so that we get update faster???

Edited by user Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:52:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

fotoul  
#647 Posted : Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:03:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: codu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
The only thing I can says is that Percy was busy until recently, and only him can work on it

Busy until recently??? So that means there wont be update until november or december??? Why doesnt he allow others from his team to work on AI so that we get update faster???


Pls. Just be patient. Nothing is made out of sugar, mate. Issues are bound to happen. Let's just not waste their time and annoy them any further... They do whatever is humanly possible... and the fact they do it for free...
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Tea82  
#648 Posted : Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:40:05 AM(UTC)
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[Busy until recently??? So that means there wont be update until november or december??? Why doesnt he allow others from his team to work on AI so that we get update faster???]

Well if I am not wrong so far there is no any ygopo version who manage to make-release a non beta vesrion!! Even the chinese developments who their ygopro version with link summon reach the 233d core version already still they called it ygopro1 beta and their ygopro.exe still called ygopro_test and simply that's mean that link summon is not 100% perfect!! To tell you the truth there are pass a long time until the last time I hear news for percy himself so I am not sure what kind of real life at this moment percy have but let's say that he is available still the fact that link summon is beta mean that's is not the time for ygopro percy to release it!! Pointles for ygopro percy to have a beta version of link summon when ygopro chinese-espanol,ygopro2 and dawn of the new era already have it anyway!! Ygopro percy going to release the link summon only when the hole link summon reach the non beta version so like very correctly fotoul say you must learn to wait longer or simply try the beta version ones!!:P Lately I notice that Eerie Code give great help on the chinese ygopro1 beta especially on script card parts;) and for that reason I start to have strange dreams lately where instead of percy actually Eerie Code release the link summon on ygopro percy!!:laugh

Edited by user Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:42:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

barfour  
#649 Posted : Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:17:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
To make everything clear:
You said that scripting was easy and on another level as programming : I answered that it is as easy as creating a program with a framework

You said that there was no good tutorial to learn scripting even after trying several times; I answered that : 1) a tutorial is not really necessary given to learn that I know several scripters that learned without it and 2) to get started, the tutorial was more than enough
You answered that you wanted to start a script from 0
Answer: i repeated that the tutorial is more than enough for that and that no tutorial would give more than the base

You said that the link update was taking too long AND was worried about the process of the AI update : I answered that you have a regular user and so, have no right to know the process (using a few companies as exemple), and given that you don't know the state of the update , and so have no right to criticize the time taken

You said that big companie were communicating about their update using windows insider as a exemple : I answered that windows insider is not for everyone and is closer to a beta test of the updates

You said that Sony have no Os : exemple given, PS4 is using a OS
Answer from you "I thinked that you talked about a OS from 0 and it is a modified version of freedbs"
Answer from me right now: what does that change that it is a modified version? A modified version mean no work on it ?
It is still their own OS, they don't communicate about what they are working on until the update is ready (or nearly ready) so my point is still there
Because if you think that a modified version is not "real", then there is no real version of ygopro given that they are all fork of Fluo core and each have their own modifications

"Big companies communicate about their futur features and rumors come from companies"
1) big companies don't communicate about update until said update reached a good amount of complexion, except if the project is a open source project (given that by definition it is "open")
2) Rumors are until official reveal just rumors and are never official until confirmed
Some may come from the company (to increase hype, something that we don't do) but most are most are from people trying to make themselves seem important because they says "hey I have info nobody else have", or from dev that have access to the codes and give info about what they find (note: what is in a code may or may never be used)
A easy exemple again is the switch, we got tons of rumors about everything (the controlers, the materials used,the lineup...) result? Most of the rumors ended wrong except a few that were General like "it will be a console that will be nomade and TV compatible" without giving more details
And each E3 we have "leak of the Nintendo presentation content" That end up completely wrong
Same with Apple, nobody can says "I know at 100% the strategy of apple for the next iPhone"
Another exemple, who could have predicted that Facebook would create their own video service?
And you can find more similar examples


1) Scripting is NOT hard as programming, I know what are you trying to do there.
2) Listen, there are no many tutorials, when I wanted to learn scripting, there was no good tutorials and I had many work besides tutorials and so there was no time for me to check all these files and scan them to learn scripting.
3) What do you mean I have no right to do that? and listen yeah Microsoft Insider is a beta cycle for users but at least it tells you what is the coming features and you can know how many time will be developed by knowing bugs and problems, also Google gives us information on coming features too, I can use Google Chrome as an example, many of its products like its hologram lens and others... but I agree that they don't tell much about Android somehow.
4) Also I have the right to critic this game or to complain as much as I can, do you know why? because I'm a player that plays this game and also kind of developer that learned all of languages syntax and basics.
5) Listen buddy, there are many devices that use that system as an OS and to be exact, OSs that have unix-like core.
6) I already answered that.
7) I already answered that.
8) Listen, I will stop replying because I feel that I'm wasting my time here with all of this nonesense talking, you don't have any information of progress? then tell me when you have because nothing here to do but to talk about nothing!
Tharm  
#650 Posted : Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:59:00 PM(UTC)
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This silly arguing is seriously reaching the point where I'm looking forwards to the update more so they just shut up their nagging, and I like the new rules! So can people please stop complaining about them taking their time with this FREE work they're providing COMPLETELY UNPAID. None of us are entitled to anything more than 'it's coming', none of us are capable of doing anything to make it any faster, it's literally just down to one guy to finish things up on his end, so just shut up and be patient, there's nothing else that can be done.
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andre060  
#651 Posted : Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:02:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: barfour Go to Quoted Post

1) Scripting is NOT hard as programming, I know what are you trying to do there.

what does make scripting more easy tahn programing exatly?
the fact you don't need to compile the program?
Can you explain it to me?
if it to easy why you can't learn it with the basic tutorial?
do you even brothered readin lua tutorial in lua.org?

poi
cybercatman  
#652 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 12:04:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: barfour Go to Quoted Post


1) Scripting is NOT hard as programming, I know what are you trying to do there.
2) Listen, there are no many tutorials, when I wanted to learn scripting, there was no good tutorials and I had many work besides tutorials and so there was no time for me to check all these files and scan them to learn scripting.
3) What do you mean I have no right to do that? and listen yeah Microsoft Insider is a beta cycle for users but at least it tells you what is the coming features and you can know how many time will be developed by knowing bugs and problems, also Google gives us information on coming features too, I can use Google Chrome as an example, many of its products like its hologram lens and others... but I agree that they don't tell much about Android somehow.
4) Also I have the right to critic this game or to complain as much as I can, do you know why? because I'm a player that plays this game and also kind of developer that learned all of languages syntax and basics.
5) Listen buddy, there are many devices that use that system as an OS and to be exact, OSs that have unix-like core.
6) I already answered that.
7) I already answered that.
8) Listen, I will stop replying because I feel that I'm wasting my time here with all of this nonesense talking, you don't have any information of progress? then tell me when you have because nothing here to do but to talk about nothing!


1) again, scripting is as simple as programming with a framework, I don't know what part you don't understand
And even without counting the framework, the difference is not that great, most of the work in both case is the algorithm
Doing both both developing and scripting, I know what I'm talking about
Also if you could expend the "I Know what you are trying to do there" I would be interested
P.S. I'd like that you give proof of you claim that scripting is easier than programming because you said that several time without giving any proofs of that

2) there is a tutorial, it is more that enough to start (remember that you said yourself that scripting was not as hard as programming)
If you had no time to invest in it then fine, but no need to says that the problem come from the tutorial
even if you had question, you could have easily have asked on the forum or discord

3) lets me ask you the reverse question, What give you the right to know the process of the ygopro team/update?
Again, windows insiders is more a beta test of the futur features of the commercial version
Users give feedback (like any beta test) and change are made in functions of these feedback
But users don't have access to the actual codes/process/idea of what will be in the next insider update/etc
If Tomorrow They decide to add a function "retro screen", insiders will get the update, they will see the new feature, they will give feedback on it
Then Microsoft decide of the next step in function of that feedbac
But does the my had a word on the addition of that feature in the first place? No
Does insiders have access to the process that resulted in the addition of that feature? No
Insiders are beta tester, they are asked their feedback on a result, not on the making of said result

4)being a user don't allow to complain for nothing, same for being a developer
how would you react if I come bugging you on how far in your latest work you are?
Again, being a user don't make you almighty
you are not happy? Then there is ton of other sims, you can even build your own (Fluo core being open source)


5) first don't call me buddy, I'm allowing some people to call me buddy, but I don't remember that you are part of them
Then I corrected you only on the points that Sony had no OS (it is what you said) , saying that they have a OS (even several if you count things like the ps Vita) and that they work on it then communicate only if the update reach a point of complexion, tell me which point I was wrong,given that the exemple was used as a comparaison for why we don't difuse any minor update we do (well like any group In fact)

6 and 7, i don't know what they are related to, so no choice except to skip them

8) Who the first came saying without even what we knew (I'm quoting) "And the fact that we don't know the process of updating A.I. makes me worried, I mean seriously, you are supposed to be the scripters, programmers, Ygopro percy team, how you don't know anything about process?"
You are saying that we don't know the process without even knowing yourself what we know or not


As for info, i have infos, does regulars user have to know them? Well tell me if the fact that we are changing the setcodes of all the anime archtype (I'll skip the details) interest the regular users? Or the fact that the fluo core fixed a "bug" that we were using before to get ride of the events cards of the deck ? If you want info that 99,99% of the users don't care then I can give a lot
I even have info that are in discussion, but being in discussions I cannot provide them (oh, we are returning to the "only give confirmed info or that is soon completed" from earlier)

There is info that are interesting to give the community, most are not, even more when said community had quite a few hype wave for nothing

Edited by user Monday, August 14, 2017 12:19:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sun4Ever2  
#653 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 12:30:01 AM(UTC)
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In less words this is most awaited of all of these by the users so far and again I will say the long wait will worth the time :) But I seriously hope it come out before november or even december that would be well.. a little boring and bad
codu  
#654 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 9:40:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
how would you react if I come bugging you on how far in your latest work you are?

But buddy, wouldnt be easy for developer you are bugging to atleast say x% done, update in y months???

Edited by user Monday, August 14, 2017 9:41:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

cybercatman  
#655 Posted : Monday, August 14, 2017 11:13:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: codu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
how would you react if I come bugging you on how far in your latest work you are?

But buddy, wouldnt be easy for developer you are bugging to atleast say x% done, update in y months???


First I'm not your buddy, and watch out when using that term, it is a negative term for some people (given that I don't know you, I'll suppose that you did not used it that way)

second, like I said and repeated, if we had info that we could give that would says "hey the update will be ready by the end of the month" (random exemple), don't you think it would have been already provided by now?

If we don't says something like that, it is because we don't know for sure when the update will be ready and what will be in the update, there is a few things still in discussion

IF and WHEN we know that something is happening, it will be said, if there is nothing to says we will not create it from air
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JTrev23  
#656 Posted : Tuesday, August 15, 2017 1:41:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: codu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cybercatman Go to Quoted Post
how would you react if I come bugging you on how far in your latest work you are?

But buddy, wouldnt be easy for developer you are bugging to atleast say x% done, update in y months???


Do you program or have scripted anything yourself? If so, then you would know its hard to put a timestamp on a finished product when it comes to programming. Look at plenty of games that were announced to have feature x and when said game came out, either the game didn't have said feature or feature x was buggy or unappealing in some way.

Or for an example that relates closer to the topic, feature x = link summoning. There are a few YGOPro sims that already have link summoning in it. But they were rushed and the feature is buggy and unappealing to the general audience.

Also let's say your job told you to fix up a run-down house in the middle of nowhere. It is falling apart and it probably would be easier to build a new house to fix it up. Your not allowed to call in a professional crew or get any help with it aside from a few strangers in the same position. Can you give me an ETA on when you fixing up the house would make it look good as new?
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YasuriNanami  
#657 Posted : Wednesday, August 16, 2017 8:12:54 AM(UTC)
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Just make a poll asking if players prefer to wait for AI or want the update without it. It's democratic and values the opinion of the majority of players.

So we can put an end to all this meaningless discussion.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 16, 2017 8:19:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

cybercatman  
#658 Posted : Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:05:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: YasuriNanami Go to Quoted Post
Just make a poll asking if players prefer to wait for AI or want the update without it. It's democratic and values the opinion of the majority of players.

So we can put an end to all this meaningless discussion.


well, then which majority to listen? the discord or the forum one?

we work to try to find the solution that would fit the greatest number of people (even if I personally think we will get complains even after the update)

We give our best to release the update as soon as possible but we reached a point where everything seem to slow down
Percy was busy until recently so he could not work the update making (even if don't count the AI/no AI idea)
There is nothing we could do on that point
Thing restarted a bit recently but there is still a few points discussed and being worked on

So, yes update is progressing, no I cannot give a time of release and no I cannot tell what are the points discussed

Also I remind everyone that as far as I know only 2 english automatic Sims made a link implementation:
Ygopro2 (using mercury as a base and last time i tested their ai did not reacted well to MR4,)
and TDOANE (do I need really to describe that update?)
so are we late? not really, even more given that there is some things that only Percypro will have a proper implementation (exemple: the crystron double tuner or tuning magician)
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ha_n  
#659 Posted : Wednesday, August 16, 2017 3:49:38 PM(UTC)
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The new update will come when the development team completes it. We should not put pressure when we don't know anything about their work.
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tinkerer  
#660 Posted : Thursday, August 17, 2017 5:53:55 PM(UTC)
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I do have a question though (sorry if this has been asked/answered already. I didn't read through all 33 pages so...). Would this update still be auto downloaded or would there need to be a new link (no pun intended) put up for the update? Not much of an issue one way or another, but I was curious.
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