Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-10-26T18:51:59Z
This  ruling states that You cannot use Miracle Synchro Fusion to fuse 2 Xyz for Norden. Using this prescedent, wouldn't it be better to assume you Cannot fuse "Dark Magician" and any Effect Dragon using Red-Eyes Fusion, as the fusion material in that case does not include a "Red-Eyes" Monster.
pyrQ
  • pyrQ
  • Advanced Member
2019-10-26T20:09:02Z
Hmm, you may be right. We will discuss it and see if we'll change the current behaviour, but ultimately we would need to wait for the card's official release and its rulings to be certain.
Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-10-26T21:03:34Z
Of course, Of course, I just wanted to make sure it was definitely made aware to people that we do have a prior ruling that would imply you can't just use Phantazmay as material. Rulings may say otherwise, but it's better people are armed with the knowledge at the very least.
Neo-RedRanger
2019-10-27T12:01:22Z
I have something to say about Dragun of Red-Eyes too. WHen it says "Neither player can target this card with card effects" doesn't that mean it cannot be stolen or change the ATK/DEF as well?
cybercatman
2019-10-27T14:29:56Z
Originally Posted by: Neo-RedRanger 

I have something to say about Dragun of Red-Eyes too. WHen it says "Neither player can target this card with card effects" doesn't that mean it cannot be stolen or change the ATK/DEF as well?



https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Target  )

Modern cards with PSCT clearly says when a card target or not
For exemple, Rush Recklessly target, so you cannot use it on Dragun of Red-eyes
But you can use Apprentice Illusion magician on dragun as she is not targeting to boost dragun by 2000 atk since
Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-10-28T12:41:52Z
Just another detail that I've since found out, the Japanese texts for Miracle Synchro Fusion and Red-Eyes Fusion, regarding this condition, are identicle. The more I see, the more it feels like red-eyes fusion is only gonna work if you use OG Red-Eyes.
Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-11-12T16:50:03Z
Another update as more info has come out. A recent rulings clarification on the OCG Database has established that another card with the same wording, "Destruction Swordsman Fusion" works the same way when trying to summon the Buster Blader Fusion.

Ruling: Q: When Fusion Summoning Buster Blader, the Dragon Destroyer Swordsman with the effect of Destruction Swordsman Fusion, can I use King of the Swamp and a Dragon monster as the materials?
A: When applying the effect of Destruction Swordsman Fusion, it is necessary to use Buster Blader as a material for the Fusion Summon. In the case of Buster Blader, the Dragon Destroyer Swordsman, the listed materials are Buster Blader and 1 Dragon monster. In this scenario, you cannot use King of the Swamp by applying its effect and 1 Dragon monster to Fusion Summon Buster Blader, the Dragon Destroyer Swordsman.

Ruling on the JP Database 
Ruling on YGOrg 

We really should be treating it as this is the case until otherwise proven, because ALL the evidence points towards you being required to use the Listed "Red-Eyes" Material when attempting to fusion summon "Dragoon/Dragun of Red-Eyes" with "Red-Eyes Fusion".
Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-11-28T21:05:04Z
As a bump to keep this relevant (As it is still an ongoing thing), we've had more rulings come up for situations like this. There's no reason you should be able to use a non-red-eyes dragon as material, we have rulings for 3 different fusion spells, including red-eyes fusion, specifying various examples and stating this. This shouldn't be a case where we have to wait for Dragun's release anymore, that part should just be fixed. I can understand waiting for rulings for cases like Red-Eyes Wyvern (Though again, existing rulings imply you shouldn't be able to, but it's less clear so...), but being able to use monsters like Zirnitron instead is completely inconsistent with the rest of the game.
Tharm
  • Tharm
  • Member Topic Starter
2019-12-22T12:06:36Z
One last update to this now that the card is actually out: The ruling is consistent, we now have rulings that state red-eyes fusion for dragun must use Red-Eyes B. Dragon as the dragon-type material.

Quote:

Q: Can I Special Summon Dragun of Red-Eyes with the effect of Red-Eyes Fusion?
A: You can Special Summon a Dragun of Red-Eyes with the effect of Red-Eyes Fusion. However, since the materials for Dragun of Red-Eyes are Dark Magician + Red-Eyes B. Dragon or 1 Dragon Effect Monster, if you perform the Fusion Summon using the effect of Red-Eyes Fusion, you must always include Red-Eyes B. Dragon as a material.



Source 

This isn't a bug with Dragun, this is a bug with Red-Eyes Fusion, as we have another case (That I made a seperate bug report for too) Where currently you can fusion summon Black Skull Dragon with King of the Swamp and Summoned Skull (This is illegal, as Red-Eyes Fusion has to use the listed red-eyes material. KotS + REBD is fine, but KotS + SS is not).
cybercatman
2019-12-22T13:45:28Z
We know, we noticed the ruling too (we needed that confirmation that you could not use a Red-eyes effect monster for dragun, thing that other ruling could not says if it was possible or not)
the problem now is finding a good way to implement that BKSS in a way that require as few hardcoding as possible, it will take some times (even more since it is Christmas/new Year time right now), but it is high in the "to do list"
Machturbo
2020-01-05T05:05:09Z
Unaware if the issue has be fixed or not, but I ran into it happening. Player used Anaconda Verde -> Pay 2k -> Red-Eyes Fusion -> Did not send Red-Eyes B. Dragon.

I can provide the replay if required as well.