YGOPRO Forum

Thank you for your continued work and, of course, take your time. I look forward to the updates.

Well, I've finally finished all the link support for my archetypes, as well as updated all the synchro and pendulum themes under the "archetypes I like a lot" so that they work will the Link update (consequently I do not think they will work with the pre-Link update any longer).

I added support for Psyber, Dragoscendent, Mystic Fauna, Glade, and Seafarer. The Psyber one is the most passive, but Psybers were already incredibly explosive and tbh probably didn't need a link due to their ability to "tag out" into other fusions. Also its destruction-prevention effect is incredibly powerful for the deck if it goes off. The Mystic Fauna one is the most explosive, by-far. I think I'll probably tone it down. I'm planning to rebalance lots of the Mystic Fauna extra deck cards, so when I do that I'll probably remove the effect to SS from the Graveyard. It's largely unnecessary anyway. I got a field of 3 Xyz without even using it essentially only using Obedience Schooled and a Terrier in my hand (Obedience Schooled is pretty stupid in that deck). The Glade link is designed to help you pull off plays more consistently by letting you flip more monsters face-up, since they were still having a problem with that. It doesn't help you with your opening plays, but once you get it out you should be able to semi-reliably get out an Xyz. Additionally, its attack-gain effect is designed to help offset the archetype's relatively low ATK, and its send-link-to-grave effect is to help you get around the fact that you can't set links, meaning Forested Sprite can't destroy them.

Seafarers got the most support. The field is supposed to help with the fact that they're constantly running out of S/T cards to proc their effects with. They probably didn't need the other new S/T card also, but there it is. Initially the field was much more OP than it currently is (somehow), but it's still stupidly strong. I might add the "But you cannot activate it this turn" clause to every one of its effects. We'll see. Either way, they should be much more consistent now.

Dragoscendent also got more than 1 support card. Their link is a link 3 because they need the 3 zones, but it compensates for the heavy material cost by recovering some of the materials used. I really like to get it out using a synchro monster (preferably Caeli) and 2 non-synchros, that way you can SS back the synchro to a non-linked zone and add the other back to your hand (Umbra, if you're lucky, which will let you proc its effect). Dragoscendents still have somewhat of a consistency issue and an issue with being stopped early, so I don't think this link is too OP. Additionally, I added a new spell card to help with their consistency problems (because I found the biggest problem with the deck was that, for one, there weren't enough cards to fill out the deck, and for another, you could easily be stuck with several copies of Dragon's Valley or Dragoscendent Pair, which leaves some of them unusable (since they're HOPT)). Dragoscendent Hatching lets you stack the top 3 cards of your deck with Dragoscendent monsters, then its grave effect lets you put everything in your hand except Dragoscendent monsters on the bottom of the deck, drawing an equal number of cards. This should help de-brick by letting you draw up to 3 cards of your choosing. It may conflict with combo-deck strategies, though (or maybe it'll help them). I really like the Invoked/Dragoscendent combo. It works so well since Dragoscendent monsters can't be used for a synchro/xyz summon (except for a Dragoscendent monster), but they can be used for a fusion/link summon, so you can use them for both the Invoked fusions and the new Invoked link. Tbh I didn't have the combo in mind when I restricted them to only synchro and xyz, but it works out very nicely, doesn't it?

In terms of updates for old cards: Many old Witchcrafter cards had their activation conditions redone to be more accurate. I believe I did the same thing to many Dragoscendent cards. I also did a couple bugfixes to Glade cards. Additionally, I did end up toning down Gift to the Witchcrafter, so it only searches 2 RUMs now. If you search Recurrent Force and Chain Force those will search another 2 RUMs, though, so it basically searches 4 (assuming you can resolve them all). I also changed Dragoscendent Ruler Malum's shuffle effect from a quick effect to an ignition effect. A non-targeting shuffle quick effect is way too strong. Next-up on the rebalance list I want to tone down the Mystic Fauna Xyz monsters (since Jaglider and Hippogrif are wildly over-powered) and will probably remove Beastgle's SS from grave effect (as was previously stated) depending on testing. I am also going to go through and re-do many of the Seafarers, since they are fairly glitchy, don't have proper PSCT on a few of them, and their code doesn't line up with the PSCT sometimes. At this time I'll probably make the new Spell (not the field) a "you can only use one of these effects per turn, and only once that turn"-style card. This will all happen eventually (probably in the update after the next one).

I'm very excited for the next archetype I'm working on. They're a Machine-type Link deck. Now, Link Summoning is very hard to make work because it requires generating extreme advantage, something that doesn't really mesh with decks that have HOPTs on every card (hence why many old decks had trouble adapting to links). But decks without HOPTs are only balanced if they're inconsistent, can't generate resources, or have weak effects (hence why SPYRALS were so OP but Fableds aren't). To counter this, my new theme is using Counters as a cost mechanic to balance the deck instead of using HOPTs. If effects aren't free then it doesn't matter if you can use them more than once. I should be able to balance them just by adjusting counter-cost, so that's also very convenient. Anyway, I'm very excited for this theme.

In conclusion, there's new cards. Hopefully they'll help the archetypes they're a part of catch up in link era. I hope you enjoy them. Let me know what you think and if you find any bugs.

Edit: Oh, I also updated the main post to have more sample decklists. Necromantic are the only one under the "archetypes I like" heading that don't have one now, iirc. Dragoscendent have a pure variant and an Invoked variant.

Edited by user Thursday, December 21, 2017 10:41:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So, I've concluded that Link decks require generating significant advantage, much greater than anything any other summoning method has required (maybe Xyz is marginally comparable, since they keep their materials, meaning you really can't spam them without generating lots of advantage, but Link decks still require a lot more). This doesn't really mesh with the way Konami has traditionally balanced decks recently, that being using hard once per turns on effects. If you can only use your effects once then there's no way you can get out the 12 monsters required to make 3 link 4s. This is why most series 9 decks have had so much trouble adapting to the New Master Rules. This is also why Firewall Dragon is so important for link decks. He's a non-HOPT method of getting out monsters. I always call him "the Hyper Librarian of links."

Anyway, my point is that you can't follow the traditional way of balancing that they've been using for a few years now. SPYRALS proved that if you don't follow it and put no cap on your effects, then the archetype becomes devastatingly powerful. To counter this, I've given my new archetype, the Mechanoclast, strong, advantage-generating effects, but limited them by using counters as a cost to activate them. The counters are placed on the archetypal field spell. I added a link 1 that searches it, thus providing a consistent way of getting it, since the entire deck is reliant on the field spell. Once on the field, the field spell will protect itself fairly well. Anyway, all of the deck's monsters can place themselves from the hand face-up in the Spell/Trap zone as continuous spells, and when they do, counters get placed on the field equal to the number of monsters in the S/T zone. This means that when you place a fifth card in your S/T zone, you get 5 counters, but the first monster you place in the S/T zone only places one counter. This offers some interesting interactions with some of the links, allowing for you to generate lots of counters if you play it right.

The counters serve as a cost system, allowing cards to be non-once-per-turn and still be limited, preventing you from continuing your plays forever. In addition, the deck is severely limited by the amount of hand-advantage it can generate. Once placed in the S/T zone, unless special summoned by the effect of another monster, the cards are largely useless, meaning that how long you can continue your plays is largely limited by how you manage your hand-advantage to counter ratio. You want to place as many counters as possible, but if you use up your whole hand doing so then you can't do anything, especially since there are only 5 main monster zones. Since all of the main effects of the monsters go off when they are summoned, once you fill up your MMZ, if you do not have another monster in your hand then your turn is likely over. I actually think the game is desperately in need of a cost system similar to this built into it (not contingent on having a field spell, but instead a general point pool you can access and put into). I highly doubt this will ever happen, but I think it's what links need to be balanced and actually be viable without having to rely solely on Firewall Dragon. That idea was the inspiration for this archetype. Hopefully it serves as a sort-of proof of concept for the idea of alt-cost systems for balancing link decks. I really hope Konami starts doing something similar to this with future link decks.

Anyway, I don't think this archetype is too broken. I haven't tested it extensively using a 5-card opening hand, but the significant advantage investment required to generate a decent amount of counters means that it should be somewhat difficult to pull off never-ending plays. The restrictions I put on summoning from the extra deck also basically limits you to this archetype at the moment, and most of the monsters focus on being strong and protecting themselves rather than doing anything particularly broken during the opponent's turn, so I think they should be fine.

A couple tips: While I didn't expect this on initial formulation of the archetype, I've found that Quadruped Mk I, which SS a monster from the S/T zone, is probably the most key playmaker for your opening play. Additionally, bringing out Mechanoclast Scout with as many cards still in the S/T zone as possible is key to extending your plays, since he's one of the only ways to generate additional hand advantage, and the advantage he generates is significant. Mechanoclast Behemoth and Mechanoclast Power Walker are very helpful in this endeavor, since they will beef up your S/T zone using monsters you've already summoned. They won't give you any counters, but they'll count for the search with Scout. Related to that, if you have a monster in your hand that you want to place in your S/T zone to get counters, consider summoning Behemoth first if you already have monsters on the field. You will get 2 additional counters for the same amount of loss of hand advantage if you do this. Finally, try using the effect of Mechanoclast World Devastator or World Legacy Inheritor to revive a high-rating link monster. If you revive a high-rating monster then you won't need to SS as many monsters to go for an even higher one, since you've increased the overall rating on your field by that much (e.g. summon a World Devastator from grave. Now if you want to make Ultimate Artillery you only need 2 more monsters, meaning you only needed to summon 3 monsters to make it, instead of the usual 6).

I'm sure I haven't even begun to explore the combos you can do with this deck yet, though. There's so much to do, and between playing the cards in the S/T zone and summoning a million monsters to go for as many link summons as possible, I've found that turns take much longer than the 180 seconds allotted by default. I know that this will upset some people, so sorry, but idk if there's anything else you can do when you're talking about a link spam deck. I also kinda like decks that have really long turns, so I kinda like it better this way anyway.

All that aside, I hope you like the deck. Let me know if you think it's too broken or if there are any bugs that need to be fixed. This deck should be fairly easy to rebalance since I can just adjust the counter costs of effects. I uploaded a sample decklist for Mechanoclast to the main post. Next I might be fixing the psct (and thusly scripted) errors with the Seafarers, but I might also just make a new theme. I haven't had a new Pendulum theme for a really long time (I've done expansions, but not new themes), so maybe I'll make a Pendulum theme. Who knows? Anyway, have fun.

Edited by user Friday, January 05, 2018 4:23:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You're welcome!



Thanks! Also, you're welcome.

I'm thinking of making my next archetype a Link deck too, and I've got another really interesting (hopefully) gameplay gimmick in mind for it. Hopefully it'll be fun and out relatively soon. College starts up again for me very soon, though, so we'll see.

Hey, again. I'm having a blast with your Seafarer Monsters so far and being able to snatch Spells/Traps from my opponents, but something seems to puzzle me (and if you don't believe my word on it, I'll send proof of this)... About Undead Navigator's effect, it's implied that Unagi receives power from Spells/Trap that are on Controller's side of the field, but Unagi seems to only gain power if any Spells/Trap are on the Opponent's side.

Why is that?

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hello
any chance get pack for old ygopro - no link format- if possible
because i want play AI and the rate of quit is 80% lol and hell news broken cards
and thank you

Speaking of troubles, remember that idea you gave me in summoning McCalister? Yeah, I tried that... and yes, I'm using a deck built only on Seafarer-type Monsters, and it didn't work. I did exactly what you said, step-by-step, and I couldn't call McCalister, let alone the other Synchro Seafarers.

Like before, I can send proof of this if you want.

Edited by user Saturday, February 03, 2018 5:17:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Disregard the Unagi thing.

Well, I'm playing on YGOPRO-Percy 1.033.D(a). I've tried the "Lv. 3 Tuner in the Grave, Pierre calls said Lv. 3 Tuner monster after Special Summoning Pierre (I'm assuming Normal/Special Summon shouldn't matter in Synchro Summon) onto the field." thing you mentioned. So, am I doing something wrong, since I cannot Summon McCallister, or...?

Edited by user Sunday, February 04, 2018 12:30:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I see. Well, I ain't in too big of a hurry. My way around that little problem is that I usually just have the Synchro Seafarers' summoning changed to being called by any WATER Monsters, a la Gungnir.

Blackbeard's effect used to negate and steal a S/T card. When I updated the script for him, I re-wrote his effect to have proper PSCT and changed the script to match. Unfortunately, when I did that, I discovered that I couldn't get it to work where he negates a face-up card and sets it *and* has the effect still be negated when the chain resolves, since it is set so it's no longer negated face-up. Because of this, I decided to change it so that he no longer sets the opponent's S/T card. Pretty much every main-deck seafarer already does that anyway, so negating the S/T card is much more useful than stealing it. I think I forgot to mention that in my update about them, so that's my bad. I don't think that there was ever a card that outright negated activation. When I was trying to fix Blackbeard I toyed around with making his effect negate activations like Toad, but I ultimately decided against it. You *can* use Blackbeard to negate activated cards since it's a quick effect, but there hasn't been one that negates like Quasar.

Also, I finished converting the cards to be compatible with 1.033.D. I didn't test all of them, but I think they should work fine. The synchros definitely will. I'll upload them soon in a batch file.

Edit: Here's the pre-Link download. I also added it to the main page. Let me know if it doesn't work. I think it should.

Edit 2: Additionally, the Psyber contact fusions have been updated. The "If this card is banished: You can Special Summon 1 of your banished non-Fusion 'Psyber' monsters" effect used to be unlimited, but now it is a hard once per turn on all of them. Previously you could loop banishing the contact fusions for more contact fusions to continually make ungodly amounts of them (allowing you to return them to the extra deck and SS them from the banished zone, filling your field with contact fusions) and allowing you to use Psybernated Adventurer Alexa's effect to fill your hand, recovering way too much advantage and allowing you to continue plays much longer and easier than intended. There are still interesting plays you can do using that effect, but it is much less easy and can go on for much less long.

Edited by user Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:55:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified