jacollo
  • jacollo
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2015-01-17T23:33:06Z
For those who either dropped the game or were hiding under a rock there was a major change in the Rules.


  1. The first turn's Draw Phase is skipped.
  2. There can exist 2 Field Spells on the field at the same time.
  3. An existing Field Spell is sent to the graveyard once a new Field Spell is activated in its place.


Those changes hit OCG in March 2014 and TCG in July 2014. After playing a while using this set of rules I came to those conclusions.


  1. The skipped Draw Phase didn't impact the game the way most people thought it would. It actually didn't do much.
  2. This actually made things quite interesting. Mirror matches got a lot more hilarious!
  3. The fact that the Field Spell isn't destroyed Nerfed Geartown a bit. Most people stopped using it without giving a second thought about how to work around it. It's kinda sad really.


What are your thoughts on how did those changes impacted the game?
My Youtube Channel Red-Eyes Jacollo  (new video every week)
2015-01-18T01:48:30Z
I just dont understand why these changes were implented, nor necessary. More the time pass and less I understand Konami's logic behind their act.
AntiMetaman
2015-01-18T02:59:44Z
Actually many TCGs don't draw on first turn including Hearthstone, Pokemon, and MTG. It's standard. Yugioh was just behind on that regard. The reason is simple, to balance the game. Though MTG does have one thing that Yugioh should try is mulligan, which basically means if your first turn draw is bad you can do a reload and you can do it multiple times. Each time, your hand gets smaller by 1 card.

The 2 field spells were added to add some more functionality and combos to the game that otherwise couldn't be possible with just 1 field spell. The effects accumulate. It also promotes players to play more field spells.

In all, I support the new rules by konami and I think players should adapt and get updated.
2015-01-18T13:14:12Z
Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 

Actually many TCGs don't draw on first turn including Hearthstone, Pokemon, and MTG. It's standard. Yugioh was just behind on that regard. The reason is simple, to balance the game. Though MTG does have one thing that Yugioh should try is mulligan, which basically means if your first turn draw is bad you can do a reload and you can do it multiple times. Each time, your hand gets smaller by 1 card.

The 2 field spells were added to add some more functionality and combos to the game that otherwise couldn't be possible with just 1 field spell. The effects accumulate. It also promotes players to play more field spells.

In all, I support the new rules by konami and I think players should adapt and get updated.



Saying Yu Gi Oh was behind others games for the drawing matter is a one side view, the fact its a TCG does not mean it should have similarities to others TCG.

As for the balance, they did not need to do that because lets be honest, its just going to hinder the decks types that are already lacking good cards/support, all because of their unbalanced banlists.

If they really wanted to put back the balance in order, they would review their cards design, and be serious about the banlists. Right now they chose which cards to ban according to a buisness plan, more than to try and let everyone enjoy the game as it should be.

Im all happy for the 2 field spell cards tho, this should be fun.
jacollo
  • jacollo
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2015-01-18T13:38:36Z
As far as I can tell, this set of rules gave the game the same thing Goat Format did, thought process. Since those rules were implemented I saw/built many decks that work around them in some aspects. A good example is the Field Spell thing. Since it's not destroyed when you swap it Geartown was "nerfed". The funny thing is that when people started crying about it, looking at you MLD, I gave them around 15 cards that can destroy a field spell better than setting a new field spell. As for the drawing, it makes you think about a draw/search engine a bit more. Yes some decks are slower than other, but I don't know a deck that DOESN'T have a possible search/draw engine. All you need to do is take a minute to think about it.
Konami is a company and lets face it, Yu-Gi-Oh! is their primary, if not only, source of income. All the games they produce are mediocre at best. Therefore it's not a big surprise the banlist is managed in such a way.
My Youtube Channel Red-Eyes Jacollo  (new video every week)
AntiMetaman
2015-01-18T13:54:19Z
http://arstechnica.com/g...-other-turn-based-games/ 

It hasn't really hindered anything. Many players still choose to go first and it is advantageous to go first depending on the deck you use such as pendulum decks like Qli. The truth is that it has made the game more balanced because it has reduced ftk probability. Sure that some weaker decks have weakened because of this rule, but overall it is better. As for the banlists, it is always a work in progress and people will always have different views. The point is to adapt and find new strategies.
2015-01-18T14:14:48Z
http://arstechnica.com/g...-other-turn-based-games/ 

It hasn't really hindered anything. Many players still choose to go first and it is advantageous to go first depending on the deck you use such as pendulum decks like Qli. The truth is that it has made the game more balanced because it has reduced ftk probability. Sure that some weaker decks have weakened because of this rule, but overall it is better. As for the banlists, it is always a work in progress and people will always have different views. The point is to adapt and find new strategies.



Thank you very much for the link, i'll take a look now, as the only TCG I ever played before Yu Gi Oh was DBZ (18 years ago). You say it has not hindered anything then you say "Sure that some weaker decks have weakened because of this rule," so it did hinder decks, should they be irrelevant for you they are not for me and lost of other players. Especialy grinder decks which already had a hard time in the recent years, the 6th card was really important for them. Now can we really say "Oh this is better!" when weaker decks get weakned even more? I don't think so.


Originally Posted by: jacollo 

Konami is a company and lets face it, Yu-Gi-Oh! is their primary, if not only, source of income. All the games they produce are mediocre at best. Therefore it's not a big surprise the banlist is managed in such a way.



Solid Snake says Hi! and its probably one of the best games serie out there, on another hand, I am really curious to know which recent game is not mediocre? They're all so bad that they need to make re edition of games that are 10+ years old.
AntiMetaman
2015-01-18T14:24:29Z
Originally Posted by: Cerulean Knight 

Thank you very much for the link, i'll take a look now, as the only TCG I ever played before Yu Gi Oh was DBZ (18 years ago). You say it has not hindered anything then you say "Sure that some weaker decks have weakened because of this rule," so it did hinder decks, should they be irrelevant for you they are not for me and lost of other players. Especialy grinder decks which already had a hard time in the recent years, the 6th card was really important for them. Now can we really say "Oh this is better!" when weaker decks get weakned even more? I don't think so.



This is why new support is being released for those weaker decks. Also, this where the art of deck building comes in and you can re-build a weaker deck to make them more competitive. Weaker decks aren't irrelevant for me. [:laugh:] My name's antimeta for a reason. I always support the underdog.
Emiliavance
2015-01-19T07:06:21Z
Originally Posted by: jacollo 

Konami is a company and lets face it, Yu-Gi-Oh! is their primary, if not only, source of income. All the games they produce are mediocre at best.



The Metal Gear and Castlevania series are awesome! XD

Anyway, on the topic:

1. I was really surprised back then! I though that the game won't be the same anymore. However, after a short while playing by the new rules, it's actually pretty fair to me. Heck, I'm still going first most of the time and the first draw cut doesn't bother me at all... All in all, I agree with this new rule.

2. When I learned about this one, I was like, "Great!" and for a good reason. This will promote the usage of Field Spells more, brings more variations to the game state, and gives Field-oriented decks (E.g. Gravekeepers and Malefic) more edge whilst performing.

3. The one that lingers to me the longest, although I don't really think about it now. For a while, I lamented the indirect nerf to Geartown decks, but hey! People can always destroy them manually. This actually makes people think more. [tease]Many people don't think much lately.[/tease]

4. This topic needs to be stickied, so we can reduce the amount of "I can't draw first turn!", "Geartown Bug!" or the likes on this forum. I'm still a bit pessimistic even by that though, since probably like half of people won't bother to read. [teaste]Many people don't read much lately.[/tease]
Link is the new Synchro, because it changes the definition of "Classic" in Yu-Gi-Oh!
Michael Lawrence Dee
2015-01-19T09:30:23Z
Originally Posted by: Emiliavance 

Originally Posted by: jacollo 

Konami is a company and lets face it, Yu-Gi-Oh! is their primary, if not only, source of income. All the games they produce are mediocre at best.



The Metal Gear and Castlevania series are awesome! XD



Hey! I play Castlevania too!!!

Ok.
1. First turn draw. Not so much of a big deal.
2. 2 Field Spells - This is pretty fun if you're using it but pretty bad when you want to kill a Malefic Monster, etc.
3. Send to grave instead of Destroy, well the only reason why I sometimes come back to the obsolete rulings.
Now this is how I play:
jacollo
  • jacollo
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
2015-01-22T12:06:13Z
I'm actually a it shocked that most of you weren't bothered by the "First Turn Draw Phase" thing. If we're talking balance let's look at this from an advantage perspective.
Note: Player A will be always going first.

  • Old Rules

    1. Player A:

      • 6 cards in hand
      • Clear board making so opponent cannot respond to any plays
      • Can prepare to counter opponent

  • Player B:

    • 6 cards in hand
    • Possible cards on the field can disrupt possible plays
    • Can predict opponent's movements and react to them


  • New Rules:

    • Player A:

      • 5 cards in hand
      • Clear board making so opponent cannot respond to any plays
      • Can prepare to counter opponent

    • Player B:

      • 6 cards in hand
      • Possible cards on the field can disrupt possible plays
      • Can predict opponent's movements and react to them

    if you ask me in the old set of rules Player A has a significant advantage over Player B. Not only this makes it so there is no card advantage but also lets Player A set for possible plays from Player B. The new set of rules put Player A at a card disadvantage but still maintain the other advantages Player A has.

    Adding "Summoning Sickness" would make all non-burn OTKs useless. Not to mention that it would flip the game upside-down.
    My Youtube Channel Red-Eyes Jacollo  (new video every week)
  • FTON
    • FTON
    • Advanced Member
    2015-01-22T13:20:12Z
    to be honest the new rules in which first player doesn't draw cards sucks, many decks nowadays still need that draw you know, and not always the first player draws has the more advantage, even second players have more advantage than first players, when choosing who is the first, people always select their opponent to start first, so they gain more advantage and start OTk-ing them, not cool.
    2 Field Spells at the same time is a bad, it also makes Monsters who rely on Field spell hard to defeat, especially opponent can counter your moves.

    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 

    ker decks get weakned even more? I don't think so.
    This is why new support is being released for those weaker decks. Also, this where the art of deck building comes in and you can re-build a weaker deck to make them more competitive. Weaker decks aren't irrelevant for me. [:laugh:] My name's antimeta for a reason. I always support the underdog.



    Please tell me you're Kidding right?
    I don't see any new support for weaker decks, Unlike Xsabers, Gem-knight, Constellars (just because they appeared in Arc V) they had more than just a small Support, whereas Decks like Fabled for example never had Supports since the Zexal Era; Even Dark World got the biggest Support because of Burning Abyss, DDD.... they never made new Supports for Normal Monsters decks to counter cards of Nowadays either.
    AntiMetaman
    2015-01-22T14:00:42Z
    Originally Posted by: FTON 

    Please tell me you're Kidding right?
    I don't see any new support for weaker decks, Unlike Xsabers, Gem-knight, Constellars (just because they appeared in Arc V) they had more than just a small Support, whereas Decks like Fabled for example never had Supports since the Zexal Era; Even Dark World got the biggest Support because of Burning Abyss, DDD.... they never made new Supports for Normal Monsters decks to counter cards of Nowadays either.



    No, I'm definitely not kidding. Not sure if you just missed it, but there's been a lot of new support including Crystal beast, Dark Magician, Harpie, Charmer, Performapal, Synchron, Blackwing, Plant Princess, Deskbot, Superheavy samurai, Raid raptors, Trains, Outer Gods, U.A., etc. As for normals, there are a lot of new vanilla pendulums. They have made normals very strong. There will always be underdog archetypes in any tcg. No matter how much support you release, there will always be strong and weak. That's why there is meta and tiers. Players will always ask konami to release more support of the archetypes they use. It's biased.

    @jacollo: I think just like anything new, players always hate it. When synchros came out, old players who stick to old rules hated it. Same thing happened with xyz. Same thing again with pendulum. Same thing has happened now with new rules. Haters are gonna hate. Good players suck it up, adapt and move on.
    jacollo
    • jacollo
    • Advanced Member Topic Starter
    2015-01-22T14:06:14Z
    Well FTON, if your decks need that 1 card to live it's not my problem. I still think that 1 card doesn't have that much of an impact on the game. I also stated that this new set of rules forces you to think about a draw/search engine in your deck. If you have no idea for one use Supply Squad.
    I know you're mostly playing Unicore Control so you have to draw cards, you must have a draw engine in this deck.
    Do Fabled really need new support? Pretty much every card that discards can be used in a Fabled deck, that makes about 30 Spells and 25 Traps. I don't think any other Archetype has that much support.
    As for Normal Monsters, there's the Pendulum Support, not too hard to do because all of the Pendulum Monsters are searchable. Not to mention there's Heart of the Underdog that makes you draw half of your deck in 1 turn, Tyrant's traps that pretty much stun your opponent and First of Dragons that cannot be destroyed.
    My Youtube Channel Red-Eyes Jacollo  (new video every week)
    FTON
    • FTON
    • Advanced Member
    2015-01-22T14:19:37Z
    Originally Posted by: jacollo 

    Well FTON, if your decks need that 1 card to live it's not my problem. I still think that 1 card doesn't have that much of an impact on the game. I also stated that this new set of rules forces you to think about a draw/search engine in your deck. If you have no idea for one use Supply Squad.
    I know you're mostly playing Unicore Control so you have to draw cards, you must have a draw engine in this deck.
    Do Fabled really need new support? Pretty much every card that discards can be used in a Fabled deck, that makes about 30 Spells and 25 Traps. I don't think any other Archetype has that much support.
    As for Normal Monsters, there's the Pendulum Support, not too hard to do because all of the Pendulum Monsters are searchable. Not to mention there's Heart of the Underdog that makes you draw half of your deck in 1 turn, Tyrant's traps that pretty much stun your opponent and First of Dragons that cannot be destroyed.



    Supply Squad is once per turn effect, and it's slow., that's why i quit using it, also Upstart Goblin is crappy, because it lets opponent gain 1000 LP
    Ugh, even though there are pendulum Normal Monsters, but they don't fit decks i make, i'm not that big user of those cards, putting them will waste the Core of the deck, which is based only on Normal Monsters.

    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 



    No, I'm definitely not kidding. Not sure if you just missed it, but there's been a lot of new support including Crystal beast, Dark Magician, Harpie, Charmer, Performapal, Synchron, Blackwing, Plant Princess, Deskbot, Superheavy samurai, Raid raptors, Trains, Outer Gods, U.A., etc. As for normals, there are a lot of new vanilla pendulums. They have made normals very strong. There will always be underdog archetypes in any tcg. No matter how much support you release, there will always be strong and weak. That's why there is meta and tiers. Players will always ask konami to release more support of the archetypes they use. It's biased.


    I didn't see any Dark Magician Support, i didn't use the rest, because Raid Raptors were my favorite archetype, and they are now a big disappointment into the TCG/OCG
    also i don't play other archetypes, since i have no interest in using them. XD
    AntiMetaman
    2015-01-23T21:24:59Z
    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    I didn't see any Dark Magician Support, i didn't use the rest, because Raid Raptors were my favorite archetype, and they are now a big disappointment into the TCG/OCG
    also i don't play other archetypes, since i have no interest in using them. XD



    So you don't play other archetypes nor have interest in them yet you are asking for more support from konami for weaker archetypes. That makes sense. Even the Normal archetype that you were asking for has gotten tons of new pendulum support now. The support cards for Dark Magician include Eternal Soul, a card by itself like Blaze Accelerator Magazine, another example of how Konami added support to Volcanics. I posted a replay not too long ago of using a Dark Magician deck and beating Qli with it. Raid Raptors are also not a disappointment at all. The new quick-play rank-up cards that are coming out will change the game and make them fairly competitive.
    YamiJustin
    2015-01-23T21:36:08Z
    I don't agree with not drawing first, but the fact that the option to use Obsolete Rulings is still in the game makes me happy
    FTON
    • FTON
    • Advanced Member
    2015-01-23T21:48:47Z
    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 


    Even the Normal archetype that you were asking for has gotten tons of new pendulum support now.


    They Are pendulum Monsters, and i only run pure Normal Monsters., uh except Rescue rabbit and Honest and some XYZ Monsters for the game, i tried effect pendulum cards and results were like meh!
    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 


    The support cards for Dark Magician include Eternal Soul, a card by itself like Blaze Accelerator Magazine, another example of how Konami added support to Volcanics. I posted a replay not too long ago of using a Dark Magician deck and beating Qli with it.


    I've seen that.

    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 


    Raid Raptors are also not a disappointment at all. The new quick-play rank-up cards that are coming out will change the game and make them fairly competitive.



    It' not about the Quick-Play rank-up cards, it's about how they ruined Raising Falcon, into just target 1 Special Summoned Monster unlike the original anime effect, so yeah, i kinda lost faith in TCG/OCG decks.

    AntiMetaman
    2015-01-23T22:37:29Z
    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    They Are pendulum Monsters, and i only run pure Normal Monsters., uh except Rescue rabbit and Honest and some XYZ Monsters for the game, i tried effect pendulum cards and results were like meh!



    A normal pendulum monster is still a normal monster. The consistency of the deck still flows and fits in with the archetype. Konami finally comes out with new support for normals and now you say you don't want to use it because you want to stick to "pure" yet there's still xyz and effect monsters in the main deck lol. I remember I had made that LV4 Vanilla deck for you. I have since updated it and it made it even more consistent.

    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    It' not about the Quick-Play rank-up cards, it's about how they ruined Raising Falcon, into just target 1 Special Summoned Monster unlike the original anime effect, so yeah, i kinda lost faith in TCG/OCG decks.



    Konami had to nerf Rise Falcon to avoid an otk. It's really very easy to do one. Anime effects will always be more OP. TCG/OCG is for people who want strategy and are able to exploit combos even with weaker cards.
    jacollo
    • jacollo
    • Advanced Member Topic Starter
    2015-01-23T22:50:12Z
    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 


    The support cards for Dark Magician include Eternal Soul, a card by itself like Blaze Accelerator Magazine, another example of how Konami added support to Volcanics. I posted a replay not too long ago of using a Dark Magician deck and beating Qli with it.


    I've seen that.


    Wait a second, but you said earlier:
    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    don't see any new support for weaker decks, Unlike Xsabers, Gem-knight, Constellars (just because they appeared in Arc V) they had more than just a small Support, whereas Decks like Fabled for example never had Supports since the Zexal Era; Even Dark World got the biggest Support because of Burning Abyss, DDD.... they never made new Supports for Normal Monsters decks to counter cards of Nowadays either.


    And now you're saying you saw that support? I sense some flaw in this logic.
    Originally Posted by: FTON 


    Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 


    Raid Raptors are also not a disappointment at all. The new quick-play rank-up cards that are coming out will change the game and make them fairly competitive.



    It' not about the Quick-Play rank-up cards, it's about how they ruined Raising Falcon, into just target 1 Special Summoned Monster unlike the original anime effect, so yeah, i kinda lost faith in TCG/OCG decks.


    Nothing stops you from coding this card with the Anime effect. If you as me it's OP, so OP that I can't even find a proper comparison. Konami had to nerf this card in order to make it playable.

    Originally Posted by: YamiJustin 

    I don't agree with not drawing first, but the fact that the option to use Obsolete Rulings is still in the game makes me happy


    I would love to hear why you're not agreeing on that. Is it because now the 1st turn Player's advantage is much more subtle than it was before? It still exists if you haven't noticed...
    My Youtube Channel Red-Eyes Jacollo  (new video every week)