Chaosstridr5
2015-05-10T04:46:30Z
I've recently attempted at building a Cyber Dragon deck focusing mainly on bringing out Infinity, with support from Clear Wing Synchro Dragon and others.

So far, the deck has worked phenomenally. Using the AI, and a few matches online, I've totaled 42 [random] matches, of which I went 36-6. I understand this means diddly-squat since it doesn't account for difficulty, the deck-type, etc., but I just wanna put that out there.

My current goal is to improve upon my deck (obviously). I'm currently torn between wanting to add old favorites and cards that actually need to be included, which is where you all come in. What are you thoughts? Any improvements or tips you could provide would be extremely appreciated.


Monsters [22]:
Gorz, the Emmisary of Darkness x1
Machina Fortress x2
Machina Gearframe x1
Cyber Dragon x3
Cyber Dragon Drei x3
Cyber Dragon Core x3
Artifact Moralltech x1
Denkou - Sekka x1
Chronomoly Golden Jet x1
Honest x2
Vylon Cube x2
Vylon Tetrah x2


Spells [23]:
Instant Fusion x2
Overload Fusion x2
Galaxy Cyclone x1
Raigeki x1
One Day of Peace x1
Power Bond x2
Machine Duplication x2
Upstart Goblin x3
Foolish Burial x1
Cyber Repair Plant x2
Mystical Space Typhoon x3
Limiter Removal x1
Cybernetic Fusion Support x1
Break! Draw! x1


Traps [7]:
Bottomless Trap Hole x1
Reckless Greed x2
Trap Stun x1
Dimensional Prison x1
Breakthrough Skill x1
Cyber Network x1


Extra [15]:
Cyber End Dragon x1
Cyber Twin Dragon x1
Cyber Dragon Infinity x2
Cyber Dragon Nova x2
Chimeratech Rampage Dragon x2
Panzer Dragon x2
Number S39: Utopia Lightning x1
Number 39: Utopia x1
Constellar Pleiades x1
Clear Wing Synchro Dragon x2

Side [n/a]:
I have one, but I won't add it here.


Most decks I run into try to shutdown any competition, usually right from the get-go. I want this deck to be able to circumvent blocks, like Skill Drain, or general big hits. Nothing is more frustrating than having the cards you want to use, but have no way of playing them due to stupid stalls, counters, and "shutdowns".
My deck is pretty fluid as it stands, but I'd like any cards that make it... well, better.

Once again, thanks for any tips/help in advance!
flowoftime
2015-05-10T10:14:19Z
53 cards! Wut? [:w00t:]

Cyber Dragon...
flowoftime
2015-05-10T15:59:35Z
It's kinda hard to explain since there's no decent guide for Cyber Dragon guide in Pojo.

You may see may deck for reference, but I'm kinda lazy to explain. [:tongue:]
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Chaosstridr5
2015-05-10T19:18:23Z
Originally Posted by: flowoftime 

It's kinda hard to explain since there's no decent guide for Cyber Dragon guide in Pojo.

You may see may deck for reference, but I'm kinda lazy to explain. [:tongue:]



Another deck build is fine, but it's not what I'm looking for.
What cards have you used that have worked well with Cyber Dragons, like Synchros, Exceeds, support, etc.

Here's a better way to explain what I'm getting at:

I recently ended up adding Vylons (Tetrah [lv.2] and Cube [lv.3]). This lets me Synchro Clear Wing with 90% of my playable cards. Vylons are searchable through Cyber Network, fodder for Rampages effect, and can search out/become Equip cards to add extra survivability to my beaters (Infinity, Clear Wing, etc.).


I added Number 39: Utopia and Number S39: Utopia the Lightning for easy access to a 2500 and 5000 ATK beatstick. With an excess of easily summoned level 4 monsters, I can pull out Utopia when I can't normally do anything else (which practically never happens). Then I can immediately overlay into Utopia the Lightning (just like Nova -> Infinity) and deal a massive blow to my opponents LP. After that, he remains on the field as a 2500 beatstick who can prevent cards from activating till the end of the damage step, essentially guaranteeing the kill.

Clear Wing Synchro essentially protects all Level 5/Rank 5 and higher monsters from being targeted by nasty or annoying card effects. He's a 2500 beatstick.
- If he was made with Tetrah, I can bring back Tetrah at the cost of 500LP in order to equip and a destructible, giving life to any monster of my choice for another turn (circumvents Limiter Removal, which is awesome).

- Cube lets me search out Break! Draw!, potentially allowing up to 3 extra draws for every kill.

- He's extra protection for Infinity and Rampage, canceling out effects and destroying the activating card to prevent Rampage and Infinity from biting the dust early. This is CRAZY when paired with another Clear Wing or 2 Infinitys.




This is what I meant by providing tips/information. I should've gone into detail when I first posted, but I'm generally asking for cards that benefit my build and keep it extremely fluid in chaining combos and keeping my field presence. Of course, I'll need to cut my deck down to 40 eventually, but for now, it's still in testing. Any card that you believe can benefit my deck, moreso than some currently in it, post here and I'll test out to see if it's worth keeping. Thanks again.
flowoftime
2015-05-10T21:56:45Z
Cyber Dragon competitive build is focusing on spamming Cyber Dragon Infinity and Chimeratech Rampage Dragon as soon as possible and pull out OTK. So basically you need Galaxy Soldier or any lv 5 Machine monster that can be Normal or Special Summoned. With Cyber Repair Plant you can easily grab your lv 5 Machine monster and start spamming Cyber Dragon Infinity once per turn.

If you're looking for fun build such as Synchro and the likes, then I can't help you.

If you play OCG, you'll need Monster Reborn.
Chaosstridr5
2015-05-10T22:43:57Z
Originally Posted by: flowoftime 

Cyber Dragon competitive build is focusing on spamming Cyber Dragon Infinity and Chimeratech Rampage Dragon as soon as possible and pull out OTK. So basically you need Galaxy Soldier or any lv 5 Machine monster that can be Normal or Special Summoned. With Cyber Repair Plant you can easily grab your lv 5 Machine monster and start spamming Cyber Dragon Infinity once per turn.

If you're looking for fun build such as Synchro and the likes, then I can't help you.

If you play OCG, you'll need Monster Reborn.



I can spam either with little to no issue. The reason I'm adding Synchro and various "support" cards is to 'improve' upon the original OTK builds that I've come across.

Most OTK builds throw everything they have into getting out one or two monsters as quickly as possible. Once they're out, they have very little or no backup. If they end up getting shutdown, that's it. Game over, but +1 for effort.

I'm attempting to change that. I'm providing my Infinity and Rampage with backup and alternative coverage.

Scrolling through the YGOPro Library is a little annoying, checking every card that may potentially be of some use.
Higuide
2015-05-11T05:20:35Z
problem is the very nature of even the most current model of cyber dragons, is that its one-sided and its not made for overthinking. generally speaking despite all its majesty and well earned merits its , there's not much room for finesse. either you crush your opponent as brutally possible or die trying.

personally i love cyber dragon's tactics but after a dozen wins/surrenders (less or sooner) going to want more variables in approach and execution in the SAME efficiency than me just bludgeoning doing the same thing. its negligible when dueling with good company unless like most of us just duel randoms, even losing all the time seems better with good company
flowoftime
2015-05-11T09:59:00Z
Originally Posted by: Chaosstridr5 


I can spam either with little to no issue. The reason I'm adding Synchro and various "support" cards is to 'improve' upon the original OTK builds that I've come across.

Most OTK builds throw everything they have into getting out one or two monsters as quickly as possible. Once they're out, they have very little or no backup. If they end up getting shutdown, that's it. Game over, but +1 for effort.

I'm attempting to change that. I'm providing my Infinity and Rampage with backup and alternative coverage.

Scrolling through the YGOPro Library is a little annoying, checking every card that may potentially be of some use.



Backup?

Once Cyber Dragon Infinity is up, you only need:
Trap Stun or Wiretap
Breakthough Skill or Fiendish Chain
Vanity's Emptiness
Other stun cards such as Bottomless Trap Hole and the likes

This is just my opinion:
Synchro slows down your Cyber Dragon deck and pretty much screws your OTK potential. It renders your Cyber Dragon ineffective. If you're up for synchro, there are many synchro focus decks that are far better than using Cyber Dragon as engine.
Chaosstridr5
2015-05-11T13:57:28Z
Originally Posted by: flowoftime 

Originally Posted by: Chaosstridr5 


I can spam either with little to no issue. The reason I'm adding Synchro and various "support" cards is to 'improve' upon the original OTK builds that I've come across.

Most OTK builds throw everything they have into getting out one or two monsters as quickly as possible. Once they're out, they have very little or no backup. If they end up getting shutdown, that's it. Game over, but +1 for effort.

I'm attempting to change that. I'm providing my Infinity and Rampage with backup and alternative coverage.

Scrolling through the YGOPro Library is a little annoying, checking every card that may potentially be of some use.



Backup?

Once Cyber Dragon Infinity is up, you only need:
Trap Stun or Wiretap
Breakthough Skill or Fiendish Chain
Vanity's Emptiness
Other stun cards such as Bottomless Trap Hole and the likes

This is just my opinion:
Synchro slows down your Cyber Dragon deck and pretty much screws your OTK potential. It renders your Cyber Dragon ineffective. If you're up for synchro, there are many synchro focus decks that are far better than using Cyber Dragon as engine.



Out of the 59 matches I've now run, I've lost exactly 14. Each of the matches that I lost were due to my opponent being able to out-combo me and take out Infinity and my backrow with counters and effects.
I'm not shooting for 100% impenetrable defenses, but Clear Wing Synchro alone could ruin your OTK with Rampage or Infinity before you've even touched the Battle Phase.

I've added a few more measures that I've found to bolster my defenses in order to protect Infinity and Rampage, without hindering the fluidity of my deck.
I can just as easily pull out Rampage for the OTK or Infinity for the 2-Turn Crush as I was able to before. The difference being, now I can safely pull off either of the 2-Turn or OTK without the fear of losing my backrow or monsters.

I fail to see why an OTK deck can't also run back-up Synchro for defense bolstering? You can still go into Rampage or Infinity, but if you happen to have the extra cards lying around, use them. An extra layer of protection never hurts.
I would rather guarantee myself a win than immediately go all out for an OTK. What is one extra turn if it means that I needn't worry about potentially screwing myself over?
flowoftime
2015-05-11T22:52:20Z
Originally Posted by: Chaosstridr5 



Out of the 59 matches I've now run, I've lost exactly 14. Each of the matches that I lost were due to my opponent being able to out-combo me and take out Infinity and my backrow with counters and effects.
I'm not shooting for 100% impenetrable defenses, but Clear Wing Synchro alone could ruin your OTK with Rampage or Infinity before you've even touched the Battle Phase.

I've added a few more measures that I've found to bolster my defenses in order to protect Infinity and Rampage, without hindering the fluidity of my deck.
I can just as easily pull out Rampage for the OTK or Infinity for the 2-Turn Crush as I was able to before. The difference being, now I can safely pull off either of the 2-Turn or OTK without the fear of losing my backrow or monsters.

I fail to see why an OTK deck can't also run back-up Synchro for defense bolstering? You can still go into Rampage or Infinity, but if you happen to have the extra cards lying around, use them. An extra layer of protection never hurts.
I would rather guarantee myself a win than immediately go all out for an OTK. What is one extra turn if it means that I needn't worry about potentially screwing myself over?



OTK is meant to take out your opponent within few turns. OTK practically doesn't need defense. It's either you hit or lose.

I dun wanna debate here. Have fun with your own Cyber Dragon build. [:cool:]
Chaosstridr5
2015-05-11T23:01:47Z
Originally Posted by: flowoftime 

Originally Posted by: Chaosstridr5 



Out of the 59 matches I've now run, I've lost exactly 14. Each of the matches that I lost were due to my opponent being able to out-combo me and take out Infinity and my backrow with counters and effects.
I'm not shooting for 100% impenetrable defenses, but Clear Wing Synchro alone could ruin your OTK with Rampage or Infinity before you've even touched the Battle Phase.

I've added a few more measures that I've found to bolster my defenses in order to protect Infinity and Rampage, without hindering the fluidity of my deck.
I can just as easily pull out Rampage for the OTK or Infinity for the 2-Turn Crush as I was able to before. The difference being, now I can safely pull off either of the 2-Turn or OTK without the fear of losing my backrow or monsters.

I fail to see why an OTK deck can't also run back-up Synchro for defense bolstering? You can still go into Rampage or Infinity, but if you happen to have the extra cards lying around, use them. An extra layer of protection never hurts.
I would rather guarantee myself a win than immediately go all out for an OTK. What is one extra turn if it means that I needn't worry about potentially screwing myself over?



OTK is meant to take out your opponent within few turns. OTK practically doesn't need defense. It's either you hit or lose.

I dun wanna debate here. Have fun with your own Cyber Dragon build. [:cool:]



I know what OTK stands for, and the concept behind it.

"It's either you hit or lose." Obviously, but if I can decrease my overall chance of losing, then why would I not add the cards that can make it happen?

I'm still playing an OTK deck, and I'm adding cards that don't dilute its potency. I can still pull out the cards I need just as reliably, if not better than the standard Cyber OTK. I'd be stupid not to add cards that benefit me in the end.
mooyan curry
2015-05-12T02:55:10Z
Quote:

I fail to see why an OTK deck can't also run back-up Synchro for defense bolstering?

If a deck's "Plan B" can synergize with the main portion of your deck without weakening the deck's main win condition, then by all means keep it in there. But a strong deck shouldn't have to rely on a back-up plan. Such plans usually only serve to make a deck less consistent.

Sure, Clear Wing Synchro Dragon has protection from certain things, but Cyber Dragon Infinity offers protection from everything Clear Wing does + more. It's much easier for a Cyber Dragon deck to summon, and has additional effects on top of the negation.

But if this deck's goal is to be non-competitve and just for having fun with, then of course keep it the way it is.
Chaosstridr5
2015-05-12T03:33:22Z
Originally Posted by: mooyan curry 

Quote:

I fail to see why an OTK deck can't also run back-up Synchro for defense bolstering?

If a deck's "Plan B" can synergize with the main portion of your deck without weakening the deck's main win condition, then by all means keep it in there. But a strong deck shouldn't have to rely on a back-up plan. Such plans usually only serve to make a deck less consistent.

Sure, Clear Wing Synchro Dragon has protection from certain things, but Cyber Dragon Infinity offers protection from everything Clear Wing does + more. It's much easier for a Cyber Dragon deck to summon, and has additional effects on top of the negation.

But if this deck's goal is to be non-competitve and just for having fun with, then of course keep it the way it is.



Generally, all of the cards I'm adding, or attempting to add, are cards that would generally benefit my deck the most. Cards that benefit the overall fluidity and win condition without hindering it, or as little as possible (benefits greatly outweighing the risks, etc.).

Vylons are one such example as stated earlier. Cube and Tetrah are both tuners, ranging from level 2-3. This allows them to Synchro with 90% of the monsters within the deck.

The most easily accessible Synchros would be level 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8, which as anyone would guess, is the prime range for effective and generally usable Synchro Monsters (Clear Wing, Stardust, Black Rose, etc.).

If you've every played a Cyber Dragon based deck (which in being here, I can safely assume you have), you know how easy it is to mass produce Cyber Dragons, cycling them in and out of literally everywhere. Vylons are just as easily accessible being Light-Machine monsters. If you can produce more than one Infinity or Rampage per turn, what would stop you from producing Stardust or Clear Wing?

I know I'm beating a dead horse, repeating the same monologue over and over. I haven't been into YuGiOh for a lengthy period of time, and even longer before that. Everyone here has infinitely more experience than I do with this game. I keep reading, "Well it isn't necessary, since it's an OTK" or "either you crush your opponent brutally or die trying."

I'm obviously making an out-of-the-ordinary deck. I don't want it to be non-competitive, I want to make it Tier 1.

All I'm asking is for responses like:
"You should get rid of _______ because..."
"I've used _______, it might work for you here in this build."
"It doesn't have enough _______, try adding _______ to make up for it."


mooyan curry
2015-05-12T05:29:19Z
^ Understandable. I'll give it a try, listing a few things and explaining my reasoning, R/F style.

To make the deck Tier 1 level I highly recommend getting the deck size down to at most 42 cards. The smaller the deck, the easier it is to draw the cards you need for a combo or to win, and gives a better chance of opening with a really good hand. That creates consistency, one of the 2 things Tier 1 decks are known for.

Another thing those decks have is synergy. All their cards work well together, and no matter what their hand is, they can make a powerful play, using their deck's main plan to blaze a path to victory. Good decks don't bother with back-up plans, as they're not needed.

So here I go.


Remove:

-3 Upstart Goblin (Only useful in small deck builds, where it helps thin the deck. In larger decks Upstart only serves to give the opponent extra life points. Let's avoid that.)

-1 Denko Sekka (As a one-of in a 52-card deck, something like this won't be very useful, especially in a deck that runs a number of set backrow. Trap Stun does the job better.)

-2 Reckless Greed (Only useful in small deck builds. If using this card at all, run it at 3 to maximize the chance of using multiple copies in the same turn. Anything less runs the risk of not drawing anything good and losing your Draw Phases, which is lethal.)

-1 One Day of Peace (Again, this is best in smaller deck builds. In a smaller deck, you'll be drawing your Gorz more often, and he can stop OTK's without giving the opponent a free draw)

-1 Galaxy Cyclone (Or 1 MST. Whichever you decide, move it to the side deck instead. With a smaller deck size, 1 of these can be removed)

-1 Mystical Space Typhoon (Maining 2 is plenty. This format's not a backrow format, so maining 3 MST really isn't necessary. Instead move this to the side for the rogue deck matchups.)

-1 Artifact Moralltach (This is best when used with the Artifact engine--Sanctum, Scythe, and maybe Beagalltach and Ignition. By itself it's not worth the risk of drawing it.)

-2 Vylon Tetra (Cube is more useful with Noden/Instant Fusion considering your extra deck, but see below)

-2 Vylon Cube (You can keep this if you really want access to Clear Wing, as this can be revived by Noden as mentioned above. I'll be removing it for this R/F though)

-1 Machina Gearframe (As a one-of, it's a little strange to me. Drawing this after the 2 Fortresses are in play makes it a dead draw)

-1 Break! Draw! (Vylon Cube can search it in a synchro summon, but that's far too situational here. Also sadly Equip cards not named Snatch Steal really aren't very meta-relevant.)

-2 Clear Wing Synchro Dragon (If you're keeping Cube, keep 1. Otherwise I'd remove both as I removed all the tuners.)

-1 Cybernetic Fusion Support (Paying half of one's LP to let Power Bond do the same thing Overload Fusion already does isn't worth the potential game loss.)


Add:

+3 Galaxy Soldier (Level 5 LIGHT Machine type. Its special summon effect does require a discard, but it can add another copy to hand, recovering that discard cost)

+1 Instant Fusion (Assuming you're using the TCG banlist here. Maximize those chances of a turn 1 Extra Deck play, either by Panzer Dragon or Noden.)

+1 Trap Stun (To make up for removing Denko. Also Trap Stun is amazing in this type of deck.)

+1 Elder God Noden (The best Instant Fusion target. This can grab CyDra Drei for a Rank 4 summon, or Vylon Cube for a Level 7 Synchro play. 1-card Synchros/Xyzs are good Yugiohs.)

+1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon (Super-helpful in the mirror match. Easily disposes of an opposing CyDra Infinity or field of Karakuris/Machinas/etc.)


This should result in a super-powerful, consistent, and synergistic 40 card deck that can fight alongside the high-level decks.


As for your side deck, I know you want to keep it a secret, and that's fine, but I'd try to find room for 1 more Chimeratech Fortress Dragon for the mirror match.

I hope this will be helpful, and that my explanations made sense. If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify things.
Chaosstridr5
2015-05-12T05:39:35Z
Originally Posted by: mooyan curry 

^ Understandable. I'll give it a try, listing a few things and explaining my reasoning, R/F style.

To make the deck Tier 1 level I highly recommend getting the deck size down to at most 42 cards. The smaller the deck, the easier it is to draw the cards you need for a combo or to win, and gives a better chance of opening with a really good hand. That creates consistency, one of the 2 things Tier 1 decks are known for.

Another thing those decks have is synergy. All their cards work well together, and no matter what their hand is, they can make a powerful play, using their deck's main plan to blaze a path to victory. Good decks don't bother with back-up plans, as they're not needed.

So here I go.


Remove:

-3 Upstart Goblin (Only useful in small deck builds, where it helps thin the deck. In larger decks Upstart only serves to give the opponent extra life points. Let's avoid that.)

-1 Denko Sekka (As a one-of in a 52-card deck, something like this won't be very useful, especially in a deck that runs a number of set backrow. Trap Stun does the job better.)

-2 Reckless Greed (Only useful in small deck builds. If using this card at all, run it at 3 to maximize the chance of using multiple copies in the same turn. Anything less runs the risk of not drawing anything good and losing your Draw Phases, which is lethal.)

-1 One Day of Peace (Again, this is best in smaller deck builds. In a smaller deck, you'll be drawing your Gorz more often, and he can stop OTK's without giving the opponent a free draw)

-1 Galaxy Cyclone (Or 1 MST. Whichever you decide, move it to the side deck instead. With a smaller deck size, 1 of these can be removed)

-1 Mystical Space Typhoon (Maining 2 is plenty. This format's not a backrow format, so maining 3 MST really isn't necessary. Instead move this to the side for the rogue deck matchups.)

-1 Artifact Moralltach (This is best when used with the Artifact engine--Sanctum, Scythe, and maybe Beagalltach and Ignition. By itself it's not worth the risk of drawing it.)

-2 Vylon Tetra (Cube is more useful with Noden/Instant Fusion considering your extra deck, but see below)

-2 Vylon Cube (You can keep this if you really want access to Clear Wing, as this can be revived by Noden as mentioned above. I'll be removing it for this R/F though)

-1 Machina Gearframe (As a one-of, it's a little strange to me. Drawing this after the 2 Fortresses are in play makes it a dead draw)

-1 Break! Draw! (Vylon Cube can search it in a synchro summon, but that's far too situational here. Also sadly Equip cards not named Snatch Steal really aren't very meta-relevant.)

-2 Clear Wing Synchro Dragon (If you're keeping Cube, keep 1. Otherwise I'd remove both as I removed all the tuners.)

-1 Cybernetic Fusion Support (Paying half of one's LP to let Power Bond do the same thing Overload Fusion already does isn't worth the potential game loss.)


Add:

+3 Galaxy Soldier (Level 5 LIGHT Machine type. Its special summon effect does require a discard, but it can add another copy to hand, recovering that discard cost)

+1 Instant Fusion (Assuming you're using the TCG banlist here. Maximize those chances of a turn 1 Extra Deck play, either by Panzer Dragon or Noden.)

+1 Trap Stun (To make up for removing Denko. Also Trap Stun is amazing in this type of deck.)

+1 Elder God Noden (The best Instant Fusion target. This can grab CyDra Drei for a Rank 4 summon, or Vylon Cube for a Level 7 Synchro play. 1-card Synchros/Xyzs are good Yugiohs.)

+1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon (Super-helpful in the mirror match. Easily disposes of an opposing CyDra Infinity or field of Karakuris/Machinas/etc.)


This should result in a super-powerful, consistent, and synergistic 40 card deck that can fight alongside the high-level decks.


As for your side deck, I know you want to keep it a secret, and that's fine, but I'd try to find room for 1 more Chimeratech Fortress Dragon for the mirror match.

I hope this will be helpful, and that my explanations made sense. If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify things.



Thanks for the quick feedback.

To clarify, I didn't post my side deck because I didn't actually have a side deck. I randomly tossed on whatever I felt was something I wanted to take a look at or possibly felt might help. That and I was just really lazy after typing my main post.

I'll test out the improved build.
*With some minor modifications...*

Thanks again.