Poll Question : Are you a competitive player?

Total: 20

Bromantic
2015-10-25T10:52:55Z
I'm surprised there isn't a full YGOPro competitive community out there, just randoms discussions and groups that kind of merge all playerbases. I would love to get a YGOPro community together that keeps up with the competitive aspect of Yugioh, both online and IRL. This includes tournaments, ELO, Social Media, etc. I feel a truly good Yugioh player can play any format, whether it be OCG or TCG or both, and that doesn't seem to really exist in any community, so i would be really enthusiastic if anyone else wanted the same thing.
AntiMetaman
2015-10-25T13:40:16Z
Well we started a Ygopro Tournament group a long time ago. It's why there is a "Tournament" section in the forum. We hold official tournaments exactly Konami does it and we also have special tournaments with different rules like Vanilla, Type, Archetype, Character, Goat, etc. We have all the official rulebooks for how real tcg/ocg tournaments are done. Sometimes are banlists are mixed tcg/ocg and sometimes it is just tcg. I'm kind of busy, so I haven't hosted or participated much recently, but Jamster26 holds tournaments also.

https://www.evolvehq.com...J,group:mNJUnERQ5SzaY29D 
Padraigo
2015-10-25T14:17:10Z
I stopped playing competitively about 10 years ago.

I would like to see a bigger tournament scene here to help bring in the numbers. I see no reason why we shouldn't be as big as other programs.
UserPostedImage
Jamster26
2015-10-25T14:28:02Z
I advertise for our tournaments very regularly, both inside ygopro and also on the social media channels. It's difficult because ygopro.co has not been known for it's tournaments in the past so not as many people know about them. I'm sure as we keep hosting tournaments on a regular basis and as we have started to do very recently, upload our tournament replays to youtube, more people will come and participate.

I think it would be good, and similar to a few other systems that do this already, is that if there was a way of advertising our tournaments from within the actual game client itself with a link to our tournament page on the forum. Maybe a news section could be created within the game client. I've contacted allot of people who just don't read the forums and just assume there is no tournaments going on at all. Only way currently is to host a duel and include the tournament link in the duel notes.

As AM says, we have created a chat community on evovle in the absence of there not being one inside ygopro. We have a few members already but everyone is welcome to join, for general chat or participate in tournaments etc
YGOPRO Tournament Groups:
Evolve Group 
Facebook Group 
FTON
  • FTON
  • Advanced Member
2015-10-25T15:54:15Z
I could care less about the format, regardless of what banlist it has, and what meta opponent may use.
All that matters is just i play this game and have fun :3
Am and Jamster are hosting tournaments the best they can.
Ultimate_Nova_X
2015-10-25T18:05:30Z
I'm an OCG only casual. So no tourneys for me, not if I want to win anyway.
2015-10-25T18:45:24Z
HOW about some of ya join my clan
Bromantic
2015-10-26T00:27:53Z
Tournaments isn't enough though. There is very little support for the competitive overall aspect of YGOPro. Look at DN and pure TCG: there is so much support for it, but there isn't much for YGOPro competitive players. I would love for ELO tracking, customs servers, a new forum, and other social and gaming aspects to improve the game. Personally, I'm an OCG and TCG/OCG player and i am highly competitive. The only reason i don't like pure TCG is the limited cardpool and the restrictive banlist within that cardpool. I always play to win or to troll, but always in some sort of winning. I can make a casual deck semi-competitive or i can do my own take on making an existing meta my own. Checkmate and DN are the ONLY fully competitive Yugioh Sims out there and i feel there should be more, it's kind of depressing.
Jamster26
2015-10-26T08:53:00Z
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 

Tournaments isn't enough though.



I think tournaments are the best way to attract new people to ygopro.co. The key is consistency. When myself and AM were hosting tournaments on a weekly basis earlier this year, we were getting allot of people each time we hosted, because people were expecting us to host one that week. Our largest tournament was 96 people. We then had a period where we were both busy with real life stuff so our tournaments became less frequent. We have started to pick this up again now though. As soon as the new update comes, we are going to host an all star character tournaments, including action duels, which should be fun.
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 


I would love for ELO tracking, customs servers, a new forum, and other social and gaming aspects to improve the game.



Well a custom server is already in the process of being added where you can duel using custom made cards.
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 


Personally, I'm an OCG and TCG/OCG player and i am highly competitive. The only reason i don't like pure TCG is the limited cardpool and the restrictive banlist within that cardpool. I always play to win or to troll, but always in some sort of winning. I can make a casual deck semi-competitive or i can do my own take on making an existing meta my own. Checkmate and DN are the ONLY fully competitive Yugioh Sims out there and i feel there should be more, it's kind of depressing.




There is a web version of ygopro currently in the works which I assume might allow us to further customize ygopro in the future, with things like avatars, card animations / sounds etc. (Ok, maybe I'm getting alittle optimistic with the last option there xD).
YGOPRO Tournament Groups:
Evolve Group 
Facebook Group 
Bromantic
2015-10-26T09:51:08Z
Customs are for Casuals; There are not any competitive CCG players. I personally have made CCG that was competitive and balanced, but not many CCG-Supporting individuals share that concept. Also, nothing you said has any impact on the competitive scene; tournaments are not competitive without worthwhile prizes or large playerbases.

Quote:

I think tournaments are the best way to attract new people to ygopro.co. The key is consistency. When myself and AM were hosting tournaments on a weekly basis earlier this year, we were getting allot of people each time we hosted, because people were expecting us to host one that week. Our largest tournament was 96 people. We then had a period where we were both busy with real life stuff so our tournaments became less frequent. We have started to pick this up again now though. As soon as the new update comes, we are going to host an all star character tournaments, including action duels, which should be fun.



You are missing the POINT of this thread. It's about promoting a competitive community, not appealing to new users and casuals; there is lots of support out there to getting people familiar with the competitive scene and there is enough support out there for casuals and returners. It would be nice if you have something relative to say or something on topic instead of stating the obvious.
AntiMetaman
2015-10-26T10:47:57Z
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 

Tournaments isn't enough though. There is very little support for the competitive overall aspect of YGOPro. Look at DN and pure TCG: there is so much support for it, but there isn't much for YGOPro competitive players. I would love for ELO tracking, customs servers, a new forum, and other social and gaming aspects to improve the game. Checkmate and DN are the ONLY fully competitive Yugioh Sims out there and i feel there should be more, it's kind of depressing.



Checkmate isn't a sim but a server. It uses ELO for ranking actually. Sure Ygopro does not have a ELO ranking in its own server, which is why some people play devpro or Salvation. Even with ELO ranking, it will not be enough because even on checkmate, you will see casual people on the ranked server. Another forum is also unnecessary as people who play competitive yugioh will use duelistzgrounds or ygorganization instead. The only thing that is needed for Ygopro are Tournaments and chat. We have provided both of these, but not with prizes. For prizes, we need a sponsor who is willing to give prizes. However, the true competitive player doesn't need prizes to compete but is interested in playing with other competitive players to assess if he/she is able to duel on par with them. The tournaments we host are of all formats, but a true competitive format follows official KDE rules which we have done already in the past.
Bromantic
2015-10-26T14:31:50Z
When you speak of YGOPro, please be specific which client you are talking about. I have a feeling you are referring to the Percy client, not YGOPro in general. I'm talking universal competitiveness, regardless of client. And casuals playing ranked qualifies as competitive, because they are in a competitive environment. At the end of the day, if you have a bunch of casuals and competitive players in a ranked system, those casuals are somewhat competitive, otherwise, they would ragequit and stay away from ranked because of all the meta. DuelistGroundz and YGOrganization mostly cater to TCG with providing OCG news; they are not treated equally, at least not Sim related. I already said before that TCG already has LOTS of support, so DGZ and YGOrg is obvious..but NO ONE really supports YGOPro competitively, either in media, formats, or specific servers/systems, except Checkmate. DevPro doesn't really count because of the lower numbers and average ELO/competitive players.

In regards to prizes and tournaments, you have to do the whole shibang. Doesn't have to be a cash prize or w/e, but things have to be documented, such as which decks topped, what deck came in what place, who won with what, how many of a deck were being used etc. Tournaments solely for determining a winner DO NOT COUNT. That is not competitive, but a fun casual contest.
AntiMetaman
2015-10-26T16:30:43Z
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 

When you speak of YGOPro, please be specific which client you are talking about. I have a feeling you are referring to the Percy client, not YGOPro in general. I'm talking universal competitiveness, regardless of client. And casuals playing ranked qualifies as competitive, because they are in a competitive environment. At the end of the day, if you have a bunch of casuals and competitive players in a ranked system, those casuals are somewhat competitive, otherwise, they would ragequit and stay away from ranked because of all the meta. DuelistGroundz and YGOrganization mostly cater to TCG with providing OCG news; they are not treated equally, at least not Sim related. I already said before that TCG already has LOTS of support, so DGZ and YGOrg is obvious..but NO ONE really supports YGOPro competitively, either in media, formats, or specific servers/systems, except Checkmate. DevPro doesn't really count because of the lower numbers and average ELO/competitive players.

In regards to prizes and tournaments, you have to do the whole shibang. Doesn't have to be a cash prize or w/e, but things have to be documented, such as which decks topped, what deck came in what place, who won with what, how many of a deck were being used etc. Tournaments solely for determining a winner DO NOT COUNT. That is not competitive, but a fun casual contest.



I speak of Ygopro Percy since we are on the Ygopro Percy forum. The things you are asking for have been asked for before. In the Salvation forum, there was quite a long discussion about it and the admin wanted to establish a ELO ranking system with prizes, etc. Devpro and Tdoane also have similar ranking systems. Checkmate is used by Ygopro Percy, so it is always there for the competitive player if they wish to compete. The only thing checkmate lacks is separation of the rankings of TCG and OCG formats. This was also already discussed before, but it seems that checkmate did not seem interested.

If you mean that there is no OCG support, there is actually several places you can find OCG tournaments. However, this is mostly in ADS. The forums are not in English, so that is probably why you are unaware of all the tournaments that happen in OCG. They have groups for Thai, Japanese, and Chinese to administer these tournaments which are also via Evolve.

Most of us are from North America and hence when it comes to real life competition, we go by TCG. However, checkmate uses tcg/ocg which allows for the entire card pool. Other players who actually top in regionals play Duelist Network because it is a manual game which is the closest mimic to real life. It does have support for TCG, OCG, Goat, and Newgioh. They post the top 16 and decklists every now and then on their forums.

The reason we don't post the top 16 is because it is already shown on the bracket on challonge, the free web client for hosting tournaments. It has a nice GUI that shows everything. In terms of decklists, one can generate that from the replays easily so we don't post it. Instead we post the actual replays which you can download and see the actual duel itself. All the stuff is documented on challonge, so it is unnecessary and rather redundant for us to post it again. This is how they do it for other manual clients, but for Ygopro, it's more advanced.
francot514
2015-10-26T21:09:32Z
Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 



https://www.evolvehq.com...J,group:mNJUnERQ5SzaY29D 




The community for tournaments is interesting, as you remember i also have tried that in the past, but you should consider not so much players attempt to play game in competitive way, they seem to prefeer the friendly matches for having fun and testing custom cards. BTW why the community group site, seem to have a background image for a different game called "Forced Eternal Arenas"?? is not for ygo only??
Bromantic
2015-10-26T22:28:00Z
Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 

Originally Posted by: Bromantic 

When you speak of YGOPro, please be specific which client you are talking about. I have a feeling you are referring to the Percy client, not YGOPro in general. I'm talking universal competitiveness, regardless of client. And casuals playing ranked qualifies as competitive, because they are in a competitive environment. At the end of the day, if you have a bunch of casuals and competitive players in a ranked system, those casuals are somewhat competitive, otherwise, they would ragequit and stay away from ranked because of all the meta. DuelistGroundz and YGOrganization mostly cater to TCG with providing OCG news; they are not treated equally, at least not Sim related. I already said before that TCG already has LOTS of support, so DGZ and YGOrg is obvious..but NO ONE really supports YGOPro competitively, either in media, formats, or specific servers/systems, except Checkmate. DevPro doesn't really count because of the lower numbers and average ELO/competitive players.

In regards to prizes and tournaments, you have to do the whole shibang. Doesn't have to be a cash prize or w/e, but things have to be documented, such as which decks topped, what deck came in what place, who won with what, how many of a deck were being used etc. Tournaments solely for determining a winner DO NOT COUNT. That is not competitive, but a fun casual contest.



I speak of Ygopro Percy since we are on the Ygopro Percy forum. The things you are asking for have been asked for before. In the Salvation forum, there was quite a long discussion about it and the admin wanted to establish a ELO ranking system with prizes, etc. Devpro and Tdoane also have similar ranking systems. Checkmate is used by Ygopro Percy, so it is always there for the competitive player if they wish to compete. The only thing checkmate lacks is separation of the rankings of TCG and OCG formats. This was also already discussed before, but it seems that checkmate did not seem interested.

If you mean that there is no OCG support, there is actually several places you can find OCG tournaments. However, this is mostly in ADS. The forums are not in English, so that is probably why you are unaware of all the tournaments that happen in OCG. They have groups for Thai, Japanese, and Chinese to administer these tournaments which are also via Evolve.

Most of us are from North America and hence when it comes to real life competition, we go by TCG. However, checkmate uses tcg/ocg which allows for the entire card pool. Other players who actually top in regionals play Duelist Network because it is a manual game which is the closest mimic to real life. It does have support for TCG, OCG, Goat, and Newgioh. They post the top 16 and decklists every now and then on their forums.

The reason we don't post the top 16 is because it is already shown on the bracket on challonge, the free web client for hosting tournaments. It has a nice GUI that shows everything. In terms of decklists, one can generate that from the replays easily so we don't post it. Instead we post the actual replays which you can download and see the actual duel itself. All the stuff is documented on challonge, so it is unnecessary and rather redundant for us to post it again. This is how they do it for other manual clients, but for Ygopro, it's more advanced.



Never said anything about decklists, talking about statistics. Percentage of what decks topped, how many of a deck was used etc, i don't think you read the post very well. The point is your system isn't competitive or organized as such; it is just a hosted tournament. Regarding the OCG, language barrier is a big issue; not everyone who plays OCG knows a foreign language or even speaks english/good english. Also, this has "Nothing" to do with IRL; this has to do with making YGOPro a competitive community, which you seem to either be avoiding or dancing around the concept. YGOPro in general is lacking a community or social aspect that supports all the official formats EQUALLY, instead of being biased solely on TCG or OCG. If it came down to it and people really wanted to use OCG with TCG, competitive players could just create a custom banlist similar to Worlds that merges and supports both formats in a competitive way. Personally, I feel a World's Banlist + TCG/OCG somehow improves the competitive aspect of YGOPro without letting cards like Norden and Tour Guide run rampart.
AntiMetaman
2015-10-27T02:27:52Z
Originally Posted by: Bromantic 


Never said anything about decklists, talking about statistics. Percentage of what decks topped, how many of a deck was used etc, i don't think you read the post very well. The point is your system isn't competitive or organized as such; it is just a hosted tournament. Regarding the OCG, language barrier is a big issue; not everyone who plays OCG knows a foreign language or even speaks english/good english. Also, this has "Nothing" to do with IRL; this has to do with making YGOPro a competitive community, which you seem to either be avoiding or dancing around the concept. YGOPro in general is lacking a community or social aspect that supports all the official formats EQUALLY, instead of being biased solely on TCG or OCG. If it came down to it and people really wanted to use OCG with TCG, competitive players could just create a custom banlist similar to Worlds that merges and supports both formats in a competitive way. Personally, I feel a World's Banlist + TCG/OCG somehow improves the competitive aspect of YGOPro without letting cards like Norden and Tour Guide run rampart.



Statistics are unnecessary. Most people can figure that out just by looking at the top decks. Statistics can also be calculated on challonge and pie graphs can be generated. This is what is ALREADY done today. If you're ever played competitively in real life, you'll know that KDE style does not post statistics. That is done on your own. Each deck has its variance because each decklist is different. If I say that Ritual Beast topped 60%, then that doesn't tell me anything because each Ritual beast deck recipe is different. This is why the top 16/32 is posted with each decklist, both in TCG and OCG.

Actually, we are the reason that there is even a "Tournament" section in the forum. All other ygopro clients have their own tournament moderators, but the Percy forum lacked it. This is where we started our own. IRL is the standard of competitiveness. Saying that it has nothing to do with it would be ignoring a major aspect. All rules and regulations are decided in IRL. It is the format we use for hosting tournaments online. I'm not sure if you just joined or are new, but we already have a World's banlist and we've been hosting tournaments not just in TCG or OCG, but several other formats. Using any banlist other than the official leads to custom tournaments, which are not truly competitive. The only official formats are TCG or OCG, which are supported equally already. All other formats are Custom.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to ask for because most of it has been asked, done, or addressed already before. If you can design a better Ygopro competitive community, then please do so.
Bromantic
2015-10-27T09:04:38Z
The problem isn't that an overall competitive YGOPro community can't be made; the issue is there isn't enough well-rounded people to support such a community as a whole. There are people who are good on an IRL basis and people who are just good period. The latter is much more harder to come by and i doubt anyone is willing to chance their stance or try something different, otherwise i would be all for it. I think of YGOPro as the Pokemon Showdown, etc of Yugioh, except there is just not a demand for it.
AntiMetaman
2015-10-27T18:22:21Z
Originally Posted by: francot514 

Originally Posted by: AntiMetaman 



https://www.evolvehq.com...J,group:mNJUnERQ5SzaY29D 




The community for tournaments is interesting, as you remember i also have tried that in the past, but you should consider not so much players attempt to play game in competitive way, they seem to prefeer the friendly matches for having fun and testing custom cards. BTW why the community group site, seem to have a background image for a different game called "Forced Eternal Arenas"?? is not for ygo only??



Yes, I remember that you started your own tournament group along with salvadorc on Skype which I had joined. While it started good, the participation lessened quickly. The reasons for this was due to the format of the tournament. A competitive tournament follows KDE rules. The tournaments that you hosted provided us with pre-built structure decks and other rules. I think the fun of tournaments is to allow players to design their own decks with a given banlist or certain requirements. We have done Sealed and Structure Deck Tournaments in the past but have found the most participation in other formats. I also think Evolve is the best client for communication, not Hamachi or Skype.

The problem is that I've been busy, so have been giving Jamster all the information. When I have free time, I'll have to establish a solid ranking system as well as recruit more tournament mods who are dedicated and knowledgeable about Yugioh rules. While I can train people to run tournaments, people still need to be dedicated and have some base intelligence about the game.
francot514
2015-10-27T19:47:48Z
Yes, i have no problem with this, i agree with your method for the creation of the community and support the idea of ranking system, good luck making this, ill join you as soon as possible, in vacations..
Bromantic
2015-10-27T20:55:50Z
@AntiMetaman

I actually never started a tournament group or anything of the matter on skype; the only thing i ever talked about was an ex-project i was working on. Ranking shouldn't have anything to do with tournament wins, however, it does let other knows what kind of player you are. I have no problems or personal issues with anyone's game style or preference, as long as you don't intrude or complain about a game style you have little information about or you do not participate it. So i believe it's possible to unite TCG, TCG/OCG, OCG, and even something like CCG under the same competitive blanket, as long as you make it known that each format is DIFFERENT and has nothing do it with or works differently that said other format.

Personally, i prefer the entire card pool or as much variety as you can get, anyway you can get it. So that means i play mostly OCG and TCG/OCG with the TCG banlist; however, if i had a choice to play TCG/OCG, i would play it on a World's style banlist, as there is just TOO MUCH unfactored things for TCG/OCG as is to be any bit competitive. I'm waiting for the day that a system comes into place with similar mannerisms and promotes a universal competitive aspect.

There is even such a thing as "competitive casual" and i will explain my take on it; certain archetypes due to resource control, inherit support and potential abuse would be flat out removed from the cardpool or banned, while promoting OTHER elements of gameplay.

For example, a deck like Burning Abyss, Nekroz, Qliphort, Majispecters, Performage could be removed, but the game would still be competitive within it's own card pool and banlist. Does the OCG's cardpool and banlist make it any better than the TCG, that is up for debate and is subjective, however, that does not change anything for the USERBASE for said format. Anything is competitive if people playing that format are playing to win and have an understanding of the game enough to adapt and prosper.

So overall, i believe you can create a fair competitive environment for ANYBODY, as long as said system is properly designed, the userbase is willing to play to win, and the proper research has been done.

A game is always played to win, how much fun a player has is subjective and not all players have the same satisfaction for the same things. So what may be fun for one player may not be competitive or logical, while the other way around may not be fair or entertaining for the other player. In order for someone to have "fun" winning, they need to find that category that fit into and associate themselves with that. You are digging your own grave if you say you hate the meta, but you are playing a Tier 3 deck against a current meta deck, and wonder why your deck is losing or why you are not enjoying the game. The simple answer is: you are not playing the most optimal format for you. Find what suits you best or what you can tolerate and that should greatly increase your chances of enjoying, including winning, during your playtime on the game.
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