Poll Question : Would you like there to be an option to turn on/off the new draw rule?  (Poll is closed)

Total: 29

Brownjor10
2014-02-28T06:04:58Z
I have this huge long argument for why I think the new rule where the first player doesn't get a 6th card isn't fair. I'm not going to say everything I think about it but I just want to request that when putting this rule in to the game, can you PLEASE make a checkbox or something as to weather you the player wants to use it. I've been playing for 10 years and I've never once thought to myself, "first turn auto wins", so I really don't like this rule. People say, "first turn free set up isn't fair!" But they need to understand that if your opponent plays a field or sets a card, just destroy it before you start playing yours. That's part of the game. They will do the same thing to you next turn. It's not a big deal. Almost every tournament deck out there has 3 MST's anyway, if not a bunch of archetype monsters that can auto kill half the field for free, so what is everyone so mad about? If your deck can't handle a mirror force face down, work on your strategy. All this rule is doing is crushing first turn players and making it a pain to go first. If you aren't using a pre-made archetype deck then you practically have NO draw power these days without punishment anyway (ex: not being able to special summon for a turn after pot of duality, which could easily lose you the duel against a synchro deck that does it every other turn). On top of that, with this new rule, you'll have to go second just to have a chance. Imagine you go first and get a slow hand or are just using a slow deck (or any deck that isn't a swarm deck). You already lost by having a card disadvantage to a faster deck. Or you play two monster and set a card. Then turn player 2 uses MST and dark hole. Again, you lost. With only 2 cards, you aren't coming back just because you drew your sixth, finally. And lets not pretend for one second that this scenario isn't realistic, because we all know today's tournament scene is nothing but clearing the field EVERY turn. I understand some decks are straight up bull if they get a fast start, but didn't anyone ever think maybe it's those decks that are the problem? This constant escalation of the game isn't healthy. It makes it so that there are only like 8 or 9 decks at any time that are actually playable in tournaments. Instead, there should be decks that are different, without being inherently better. We all know there are a few decks out there at any given time that make 4 other decks not even worth using because they just outclass them in every way. Why not limit a few of those overpowered archetype monsters and balance those decks out with more traditional decks that focus on type or attribute instead of a pre-made deck such as "gravekeeper" or "darkworld".
laserbeam
2014-02-28T06:27:01Z
is there a tl;dr?
Because i did not bother reading the whole thing :S
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Ice
  • Ice
  • Advanced Member
2014-02-28T06:59:21Z
No i disagree totally with your point

Ygopro should manage to mirror the Game as it is in real life, having you to choose wheter you want to follow these rules is unrealistic
At the very least i agree with an option to choose the old rules HOWEVER not in Ranked mode, this is for sure
Also, Changes happen and obviously not everyone will be satisfied with them, and just because some people dont like them it's not a valid reason to put them aside
My opinion about the No First Turn Draw? It's Good, first, the first player has the hand and field advantage already than the second player and this is why most people want to go first: To set up their strategy before the opponent, and they do this normally without interruption (If the opponent do not happen to have a Veiler in hand).
Also as much as i see this as dumb most people who go first set MST to destroy the second player's backrow on the second player's turn (This is really annoying but still legal)
The reason for a person for wanting to go second is either attacking and/or their strategy are dependant on the opponent's moves, these are the only reasons i can think of.
Also, keep in mind going first was never meant to be an advantage, it's just a matter of Konami not acknowledging by a long time their Game were disbalanced.

Brownjor10
2014-02-28T08:23:55Z
All I'm saying is that after 10 years of playing and learning this game, I feel cheated for them to change this rule and make everyone rethink their decks just to fit it. One draw can make a big difference. And if you aren't running a trap heavy deck or aren't running a field card deck then having one less card is a huge deal. Especially when so many decks these days can search practically any card in them at will. One more card = one more search = easier and faster win. I don't think we should base all the rules off of the fact that a few people are trolls. (side note: 2 mirror forces was a terrible idea. it just reinforces this play style the game is moving toward of less strategy and more auto-destruction.) And maybe this is just a difference of opinions because I don't even play tournament rules most times because I think banning cards is a dumb idea and a money scam. Sure, some cards are annoying, like raigeki and harpie's feather duster, but the banning has become a game instead of a balancing act. They ban cards that aren't even THAT op just to remake it slightly different and charge $20 for it. I believe entirely in limiting cards, but in my experience I find more cards that aren't semi-limted that I think should be limited than cards that are banned that should be banned. And the game of them switching out monster reborn, call of the haunted, and premature burial is the perfect example. Every 6 months or year they swap them all around and have for the past 4 or 5 years just to make people change their decks, not to make anything fair. That's all this draw rule is. Change for change. It isn't needed. You show me 2 decks that when they face off will always have the first player win 75% of the time or more, where it works vice-versa and I'll support the draw rule. I have never experienced that. If you draw mst and mirror force first turn, that's a lucky draw. It's not unbalanced. The second player could draw the same thing and have that exact same lead, AND they get to attack.
Steeldarkeagel
2014-02-28T08:55:53Z
Off topic: You really need to work on spacing out your posts as having a wall of text puts people off reading it.

On topic: Many other cards games use similar rules such as Hearthstone and Magic the Gathering and this helps to balance the game. In Hearthstone if you go second you get an extra card and a special card that can give you a one time resource boost.

If you go first you can play cards with nearly zero contest, maybe an Effect Veiler but that is about it, but when you go second you have to worry about all the Spells/Traps/Monsters that have been played/set/put into the Graveyard/Banished. This puts you at a disadvantage as you now have to contend to play your cards rather than not worrying about them being played.

An easy example: First turn players if they have a Mst in their opening hand they will set it, and on their opponents End Phase they get to destroy a Spell/Trap easily and break your defences, this is one of the easiest tactics that every player learns as it is great for blowing up traps before they can do anything.

But we can not really say what this change may bring to YuGiOh until players start to practise with the new rule and we can see what this change brings about.

And on the topic of Banned cards, you do know that Konami does not sell singles, players set the market price on single cards not Konami, although Konami does have a hand in it with bans and when they re-release cards, and alot of the banned cards are defiantly ban worthy. They either make the game an automatic win or they are just derp cards you can play and they do huge plays by themselves.

The reason why Konami keeps changing the ban list it that the meta game changes, so some cards Konami did not see as ban worthy now are ban worth and some cards that have been banned go down to limited as the old ways no longer apply.

P.S
I should probably put my thoughts on this in a YgoPro sense.
It will most likely go the way of Priority, when you host a game you will have the choice to revert this rule but your game will turn red as it is not using the official rules. And in the Checkmate servers it will most likely not be an option as they are for higher levels of competitive play using official rules.
Photonman
2014-02-28T09:03:23Z
P.S
I should probably put my thoughts on this in a YgoPro sense.
It will most likely go the way of Priority, when you host a game you will have the choice to revert this rule but your game will turn red as it is not using the official rules. And in the Checkmate servers it will most likely not be an option as they are for higher levels of competitive play using official rules.





I like this. This way, we can avoid people rage quitting the game because they didn't get their 6th draw.


Brownjor10
2014-02-28T09:05:13Z
Yeah but if they set mst then you can just mst their mst. Everyone knows you try to destroy face down cards before you play your own. And I would rather them make a rule that says neither player can attack or activate traps/quick spells until the second round than nerf one player just to make a few kids feel better because another game does it. Another game is another game. Just because it works there doesn't mean it'll work here. This game has been made with a speed since day 1 thinking both players have even cards. Changing this will seriously slow down some already undersupported and slow decks such as spell counter decks. Just because they are a few years old doesn't mean it's okay for them to become practically unplayable. Besides, you can't always choose if you go first. So if a deck that needs that extra card has to go second to a swarm deck, they already lost, where they may have been able to stand a chance if that 6th card was something to protect them. The first hand is all luck. Giving one person more luck is a table tip.
Brownjor10
2014-02-28T09:07:33Z
I'm totally fine with it being added, I would just like an opt out. I'm not asking for full modding support or anything, but this change in particular I feel is just being added to test the waters and for all we know could be taken back out in a year. I really do think it's only being done to try and make tournament players happier who have experience with other games that use it.
booyvis2
2014-03-02T02:34:36Z
i seriously dont get what you mean.... like steel said please make your topic more readable for people.
all i understood was that first turn players dont have a 6th card. I am sorry but when you are first you start with 5 cards and then draw the sixt, so i dont get what you mean...
adriano
2014-03-02T08:16:02Z
It needs to has a checkbox like Priority because is OCG-only by now. Nobody knows when Konami will import these changes to TCG.

jTiKey
2014-03-02T18:57:31Z
I really want the changes next update!
Ultimate_Nova_X
2014-03-03T06:59:11Z
I didn't read the whole thing, but basically my response is what Steel would say. No draw first turn is a step in the right direction.

Heck even with that, I still argue that going first would have an advantage.

Also, TCG is irrelevant in YGOPro, well maybe except the banlist but that's about it.
Koshej
2014-03-04T12:40:28Z
Maybe that's why I PREFER to go SECOND???
(And it gives my Exciton a much higher chance to activate, wiping ALL of those accumulated on-field cards, even if he dies doing so. LOL)
max1c
2014-03-04T13:18:39Z
No, once official rule is in place the game should follow official rules without exceptions.
TheExceeder
2014-03-04T15:02:15Z
I agree that we should make it optional in non-ranked duels. I mean we did it with Priority right?
duelistdude
2014-03-04T17:24:41Z
make it optional, but in ranked duel it will force you to follow the rule

also, it should make the game show up as illegal to let people know (same thing when they put more life point/more draw card per turn etc
jTiKey
2014-03-06T19:44:36Z
New rules will be legin the TCG in summer:

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KettouRyuujin
2014-03-06T19:45:50Z
Personally? think the check-box is the way to go.

I admit that the first-turn draw was one thing I liked about Yu-Gi-Oh, making it just a little more different than other games, but as stated above, it does give the first turn player some extra advantage.

Also, I doubt this will be a "trial run" rule, as apparently Konami is also adding 2 new Zones to the field for Pendulum Summons, and letting each player have a Field Spell Card out at once. To me, this is more of a major rules change than a trial run. Of course, we had rule changes with 5D's, but that mainly affected maximum deck sizes, so the community probably didn't pay much attention except to the 15-card Extra Deck limit. These changes? Bit more severe.